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| User | Post |
| Stifu Posts: 548/647 |
Originally posted by Moppy Not a real problem, as that's going to end up changing... The next official ZSNES version will have a rewritten netplay mode that will allow up to 5 players (or something). Besides, just a few years ago, I was playing SoM online with 3 players... It's just that 2 players were on the same PC. 
Still, I don't quite get why Shadowstar would request something that's already there. |
| Moppy Posts: 23/38 |
SOM already has 3-player support. The problem with 3-player games is the lack of netplay support in emulators. However with ZSnes 1.36, you can play a decent 2-player SOM, SD3, or SOE (with modifications) game. I've done it before. |
| Shadowstar Posts: 7/8 |
There is definately one thing I think is a must. 2 player support options. I'm sure you've seen the 2player hack for SOM2. That I think would really open the door to some kick ass hacks. Also there must also be an ineditor, or at least hotswaping from paint, or photoshop. That would be the best...YES! lol |
| d4s Posts: 98/98 |
i think the biggest problem with mod files is that the sample size and loop length must be divisible by 16 in order to sound right. you could multiply the sample size until it is divisible by 16 (my mod player does that), but that would increase the filesize drastically. (doesnt matter much for me cause i'm only using it for chiptunes, which usually stay below the 10kb limit after conversion, anyway)
and theres another (although minor) problem: in order to use adsr effectively, you have to know the length of the note you want to trigger beforehand. i think thats why most spc music players that use adsr instead of the simpler gain dont use a strict grid pattern like mod/pro tracker files, but rather something with variable speed setting for each channel in order to calculate the adsr values for each note with the duration between two notes. not sure how squaresoft handled that, though. reliably converting all the pro tracker effects to squaresofts format will also be a bitch, if possible at all. |
| Moppy Posts: 22/38 |
Well, with a MOD importer I have to worry about replacing samples, samples being shared between songs, etc. SOM has only 34 samples, and at the moment SOMEdit is not able to expand or add samples--only replace them with WAVs, which if too large, it will downsample for you. I suppose I could just import the music from MODs, but considering a MIDI has been written of just about any song you could possibly want to use, and you can replace the samples manually if you want, the MIDI importer should be enough
As for the programmer, I just watched the SOM credits, and Nakamura wasn't in them.. no music programmer was credited. Your guess is as good as mine on that. |
| Stifu Posts: 545/647 |
I don't know shit about music, but wouldn't a MOD importer be interesting as well, as I think the MOD format shares similarities with the SPC one(s) ? |
| Vehek Posts: 1/3 |
CT's and FF6's music programmer was Eiji Nakamura. SOM's was... well, I don't know, but I can't find any site saying Eiji Nakamura worked on it. All three games had the same sound programmer, Minoru Akao, but that doesn't necessarily help the music engine. |
| Moppy Posts: 21/38 |
I think I'm set on audio libraries for now, since I got FMOD working again, but thanks. I had no idea anything like MONO existed, once I get to the point where I have a working Windows release maybe I'll give it a shot.
Right now I'm working on a MIDI importer for the music editor... it doesn't work very well yet, but here's a simple song from Chrono Trigger that it did work on, using one of SOM's samples: http://spongemop.dyndns.org/som_afaroffpromise.spc Original Midi: http://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/nintendo/snes/ctmarle2.mid |
| Josh Posts: 4/4 |
Looks really impressive.
If you'd consider open-sourcing it, I would gladly help to get it running on Mono, which would let it run on GNU/Linux, Mac OS X, and other Unix-like platforms, as well as providing an alternate way of running it on Windows. You might also find MonoDevelop useful. Also, regarding sound libraries: you might try the C# bindings for GStreamer (which should work on all platforms), or PortAudio (which definitely had C# bindings at one point, though I don't know about their current status). |
| Moppy Posts: 18/38 |
The music was actually what got me interested in making a general editor, since it seemed like something no one had touched before. I recall sending Flobby some specs on the FF6 music format for his editor a long time ago and it was pretty similar (if not the same, I don't really recall) to the one used in SOM. Square may have just used the same music format in all of their games (Check the name of the music programmer I suppose), in which case I could pass specs to you and you could implement your own for CT.
However, my music research is not complete, as a few songs don't quite sound right yet--particularly the Dark Lich battle theme. It uses a lot of weird effects. 
Since I'm particularly bored, here are a few problems I'm working out/issues the music player has at the moment: http://spongemop.dyndns.org/darklich_vibrato.mp3 Dark Lich sans vibrato http://spongemop.dyndns.org/flammie_looppoint.mp3 Flammie flight theme missing a loop point http://spongemop.dyndns.org/flammiesummon.mp3 Flammie summon effect, volume issues http://spongemop.dyndns.org/title_cymbal.mp3 Cymbal fade-in volume not working right http://spongemop.dyndns.org/credits_timing.mp3 The result of a song changing the song speed mid-play and Somedit getting confused. As for making you look like a chump, since I've used your Snes9X tool to research just about every piece of data my editor supports, I'd say that's probably not possible. :p On a side note, I've just completed (for the time being) the sample editor. My SPC700 sample recompression routine could use some tweaking though, if anyone is particularly experienced with this. The samples it writes sound.. acceptable, but not perfect. The four filter modes are what throws it off a bit. I also just found the pointers to the music data, which conveniently enough are stored as 24-bit rom addresses so I can easily move them to wherever I want and make the music expandable. I might have a release out by.. the new year? Hard to say. |
| MathOnNapkins Posts: 852/1106 |
^ I wouldn't necessarily say that. Every game is going to have its own music format and others are harder to decode than some. I don't imagine CT's being easy. |
| T.Geiger Posts: 19/26 |
That looks really good. How long have you been working on this? Having things like a music editor makes me look like a chump. 
---T.Geiger |
| The Kins Posts: 329/352 |
I WILL use this when it comes out.
Finishing something with it though is another story |
| Moppy Posts: 15/38 |
Jesus. Thanks. That helps a lot. |
| Chickenlump Posts: 151/154 |
I've had these notes for awhile, originally posted by Sephiroth3 years ago.
------------------------------- C90000 contains the first 1024 script pointers (based from C90000) and CA0000 contains the remaining pointers, for a total of 2561. There are only 2048 scripts, the rest are texts used in status screens etc. The commands are divided as follows: 00-4F: script commands Known commands are: 00 End 02 Return to calling script 03 Bring party 04 Invisibility toggle 05 Invisibility toggle 06 Get ready 08 Complete actions 0E Sell 0F Upgrade weapons 10-17 xx Jump to script 18-1B xx Go to room 1C xx Flight command 1D xx Cannon flight command 1E xx Get item 1F 00 Name boy 1F 01 Name girl 1F 02 Name other boy 1F 03 Show forgotten continent 1F 04 Show mana fortress 1F 05 Nothing 1F 06 Save 1F 07 Reset 1F 08-0B Update weapons (all do the same) 1F 0C Get chest item 1F 10 Unknown 1F 0D-0F,11-FF End game 20-27 xx Call script 28 00 Wait for keypress 28 xx Wait 5*xx frames 29 xx Increase counter 2A xx Decrease counter 2B xx Add a character to the party 2C xx Remove a character to the party 2D 00 Flash 2D 01 No flash 2D 02 Vertical shake 2D 03 Horizontal shake 2D 04 No shake 2D 05 xx xx Fade palette 2D 06 xx xx Fade palette the other way 2D 07 Fade to normal 2D 08 Center main character 2E xx Buy 2F xx Heal (all, boy, girl, or other boy) 30 xx xx Set counter 31 xx xx Action 32 xx xx Walk (uppermost 2 bits of the second byte contain the direction) 33 xx xx Set background color 34 xx xx Loop action 35 Update HPs 36 xx xx Add money 37 xx xx Subtract money 38 xx Skip 2 bytes ahead if player xx is not in the party 39 xx xx xx Set character data (out of the last 256) 3A xx xx xx Set animation 40 xx xx xx xx Play sound 42 aa bc Skip 2 bytes ahead if variable aa is not between b and c 49 aa bb cc Skip 2 bytes ahead if byte bb of character aa's data is less than cc 4A aa bb cc Skip 2 bytes ahead if byte bb of character aa's data is greater than or equal to cc 4B aa bb cc Skip 2 bytes ahead if byte bb of character aa's data has any of the bits specified in cc 4C aa bb cc Pointless command 4D aa bb cc Pointless command 2 4E aa bb cc Skip 2 bytes ahead if byte bb of character aa's data is different from cc 4F Freeze game 50-5F: text commands 50 Open 51 Close 52 Clear 54 xx Enemy name 55 xx Weapon name 56 xx Magic name 57 xx Player name 58 Decision 59 xx Set x position 5A xx Set choice 5B Select 5D Open money 5E Close money 5F Print money 60-7C: DTE I don't remember where the table is located. DTE is not used in the game, though 7D: Ending text Start of ending text (in ASCII, only capital letters, break lines with 7F) 7E: End of ending text 7F: Line break 80-D2: characters Here is the list of characters: 80=space 81-9A=a-z 9B-B4=A-Z B5-BE=0-9 BF-CD=. , / ' \'ab \'bb : - % ! & ? ( ) CE-D2=Other characters D3-FF: DTE I don't remember where the table is located. DTE is not used in the game, though In the other text strings in the game, only commands 80-FF may be used. ------------------------------- Hope that helps you some. |
| Stifu Posts: 537/647 |
Wow, that looks extremely similar to RPG Maker... Very promising. |
| Moppy Posts: 14/38 |
Zelda is far more "action/adventure" than SOM. There is a gray area inbetween the two genres where I would say SOM falls. If I had to choose a label, I'd call it an RPG; it's much closer to that end of the spectrum.
Oh, and about the event data: SOM's dialogue and events are combined. I have found them, but not all of the event commands have been decoded. Here's sort of a debug-ish view of the event that plays when you first take the sword: 
Keep in mind that's not the way it will look in the release, but it's more convenient for me that way until I decode all the event commands. |
| Stifu Posts: 536/647 |
Secret of Mana is clearly an RPG. An Action RPG, to be more precise. It isn't any less complex than your average RPG. Events, switches, variables, shops, inn, etc... There is everything. The fact the battle system is in real time doesn't make it any less of an RPG.
Zelda is a slightly different story (no level up, among other things), and Nintendo themselves say it's not an RPG... That's their opinion, although I don't really agree with it, as it's basically the same as an RPG in the big lines. |
| S.N.N. Posts: 1750/2028 |
Originally posted by Kailieann Ah, I see. So more of the whole, go through dungeons, battle bosses, collect items thing. Interesting  Sounds like the editor wouldn't be too hard to use then. |
| Kailieann Posts: 446/808 |
Secret of Mana isn't an RPG. It's an Adventure game, like Zelda, with an RPG-esque level-up system. |
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