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| D3stiny_Sm4sher Posts: 224/226 |
 ;
I'm not so sure trying to talk with her mother would be a good idea. I seriously considered telling her mom I liked her daughter a while back, but...I don't know, something about her mom just...unnerves me. She just seems a little too controlling, but in a sort of guilt-tripping way. Also, there's no doubt that her mom wants her to marry a psychotically A-Type, Prince Charming little Asian boy. After all, it seems that Asian boys are raised to want to go and marry non-Asian women, but Asian women are raised to want to marry Asian boys. *shrug* That seems kind of contradictory to me, and I don't even think they should focus on marrying a certain type of person at all, but... Anyway, at this point, I'm just trying to ignore any feelings I have/had for her, and just focus on our friendship, which is shoddy as it is. I have a new friend that I have an interest in, and maybe that won't work out, either, but at leats it'll help me stop liking this other girl. I don't even know who I'll meet this semester with all the incoming freshmen and what-not. And I'm sure I'll be letting people know how anything in this aspect of my life turned out, thanks. LOL. |
| Jomb Posts: 327/448 |
I think you are right, the main reason you got so much stuff that seemed like bad advice to you is because to you dating and serious relationship are the same thing, but to most people dating is just the getting to know her with the option of a serious relationship open if you end up being compatible.
I dont know much about Taiwan culture, but in lots of places to the East it is common for the parents to arrange the marriages of their children. So perhaps she really is expecting her mother to have a hand in coming up with her husband. Maybe you'd do well to talk to her mother and get on her good side if you want to date the daughter? Good luck, let us know how things turn out!  |
| D3stiny_Sm4sher Posts: 221/226 |
Yea, I think you're right about all that.
And by the way, what you said isn't something I need to 'consider,' it's something I am perfectly aware of.
That's been the whole problem, you see--people assuming all I want is to date girls. I'm not trying to skip dating...well, I don't know, because when I hear the word 'dating', serious relationship is what I'm actually thinking about. A girlfriend, but not just a girlfriend, someone I actually care about, you know? Not just to 'have fun' with. I also am not wanting to go from one straight to the next, I know it doesn't work like that. And yea, of course there are people here who are fakes, but guess what? Those people aren't my friends. I do have some friends who are liberal and disagree with a lot of the stuff people think around here, but they don't try to disguise themselves. And yes, of course you need to get to know someone before comitting, that is EXACTLY why I can't see myself dating someone until I know them well enough to know that it could work well. Perhaps 'courtship' is the better word for my intentions, I guess. My friend from Taiwan who made that statement has said she wants to be 'courted' but not to 'date.' Perhaps this is because our perspectives on the word 'dating' ae different, but in actuality, we think the same way. I don't know. However, honestly, she lets her mom dictate her life enough as it is, and seems antagonistic about getting to know boys well that I personally think that, deep down, she wants her mom to play match maker for her. If that's the truth, I think she may well end up in a bad marriage. But who knows? All I know is that right now, I'm not her type, and she's not entirely mine--but I know she could be if she changed the way she acts toward me into the way she acts around all of her other friends. Oh, well. That's why I'm trying to focus more on my friendship with her and my romantic interest instead is placed in this newer girl (and potentially someone I may meet when classes start soon). And I just realized that my posts look longer than usual because my text is different, as well as my spacing... |
| Jomb Posts: 325/448 |
*L* alright, no problem.
I wont say much because we can both be very long-winded
But one thing you should consider is that dating and serious relationships are two seperate, but related, things. To get a serious relationship you start by dating the person. Casual dating is used to get to know the girl better to find out if you are compatible enough with her to enter into a serious relationship. I think you are trying to skip this step and go directly from regular friendship to serious relationship, skipping dating entirely. And like i said earlier i can relate to that somewhat because thats what i used to try to do way back when i was new to girls and dating. I'm sure alot of the people at your school are genuinely conservative. But i also know for a fact that many are not and are there because that's where their parents wanted them to be, or because its a good school and they just want the education. Any girl who wants to only date a guy she knows she will marry is a fool and is most likely setting herself up for a bad marriage. Because you have to get to know someone before committing to such things, and you do that by a period of dating/courtship. Unless we move to India and get arranged marriages |
| D3stiny_Sm4sher Posts: 219/226 |
witeasprinwow will get a reply to me by PM if he'd done posting here, because I still want to acknowledge what he said. (he edited his post instead of posting a new one, or something...)
Snow: " Don't assume that people who make lousy choices don't have hopes are dreams. That is a terrible mistake to make. Everyone is worth knowing, everyone is worth trying to get to know. Don't limit yourself because you don't agree with their lifestyle. Cause then you're ruling out almost half of the human race. Most people appreciate someone who's genuine and tells it how it is. And another thing, if you want to be loved.. really loved. You have got to love yourself. Do your own thing and it will click I promise. You just need patience." That sounds like very good advice, I agree with you. When did I ever say everyone is not worth knowing? I thought I said the opposite: everyone is worth reaching out for friendship, I'm just not gonna jump into a relationship with them. That's why I'm annoyed when people are telling me, "You sound like you have too many friends and no girlfriend. Maybe your problem is you're being too friendly." What's wrong with more friends? Everyone is worth knowing and becoming friends with. Sure, they don't all work out, but some of them do, and if you aren't open to it, it won't open up. -- Jomb: " Just because you did'nt say something does'nt mean it was'nt implied. Until after my post when Snow Tomato chimed in, you basically told everyone who tried to give you advice that they were wrong and what they were suggesting was foolishness. " I'm sorry if I implied you were wrong, I know I never said you were. All I said is that much of what you are saying doesn't sound right to ME and doesn't make sense to ME. That doesn't mean I'm the only person that matters, blabla, what it means is that if it's advice that will not WORK in my situation, it simply isn't good advice for MY situation. That's it, that's all, period. No "you guys ae stupid" etc. Never said that, don't think it's true at all. What I'm saying is what I am looking for is different than you THINK I'm looking for or what YOU are looking for. For example, when I hear the word 'dating' I do not think o the act of going out on dates. I think of being ina serious, intimate and meaningful relationship. So f you're giving me advice on how to 'go out on dates' with girls, and I'm asking for advice on something completely different, (and they are different, indeed) then of COURSE teh advice isn't going to sound right. :p That's my fault for not realizing earlier that the way many of you define 'dating' is different. Do I think you guys are wrong? No. Foolish? No. I think that those things would be wrong for ME and foolish for ME in MY situation. That is all. "if "being super nice and friendly and holding back physical attention" works so well, then why dont you have a GF right now? Why do you want advice at all if that is the path to sucess and what you are already doing? Should'nt this be you giving everyone else advice on how to be super nice and friendly and hold back physical attention as a technique to attract women? " Maybe the reason I don't have a GF right now is because I haven't the right girl yet. Everyone is different. I want advice because I don't know if I should change something or not. This discussion HAS lead to me talking with other people and altering some of the ways I think about these things. I just don't go out and acknowledge it any time my mind changes its mind on something. As a matter of fact, I have given advice to lots of guys on how to do those things in the past, when they asked me. Hopefully, they were looking for what I thought they were, otherwise my advice was misplaced and dumb advice to give. If you think I just want a girlfriend and not a serious relationship, then of course you aren't going to be give me advice that makes sense. " If you attempting to date a girl causes her to hate you and never want to be your friend, then one of 2 things is going on. either 1) you went way too overboard with the "being bold" thing and she thinks you are a stalker, or 2) she is a prissy jerk and not worthy of your friendship anyway." That sounds pretty much right, if you ask me. Which of those two it is, I don't know. But you are telling me to be bold and take chances when I already AM, and if I'm going overboard, then it's probably not a good idea to do it moreso. She may not be a prissy jerk, she may just be that way when it comes to entering relationships with boys. I'd say she is, I suppose. "About the kissing thing, I could swear you said earlier that you did'nt want to kiss anyone until after marriage, if i misread that somewhere than my apologies. I'm not suggesting you walk up to a girl you are attracted to but dont know and say"hello baby" then immediately french kiss her. I would'nt even do that. I dont normally kiss a girl until the second date, or maybe the end of the first if it went extremely well. By the end of a date or 2 you know her well enough to like her. You dont have to me madly in love with her to kiss her." No, I'm pretty I did say that. Maybe you misread and missed the extra part--right NOW. Right NOW, I don't want to kiss any girls. Right NOW, I am not in a relationship. Right NOW, I have no experience in dating and physical contact. So doesn't that make sense that i wouldn't want those things because I'm not ready for them yet? You don't have to be madly in love with someone to kiss them, but based on where I am, right now, I don't want to kiss a girl unless I am at that point. RIGHT NOW. As I've said, that could very well change. "I used to not want to date anyone unless she was "the one", then i would invest a tremendous amout of emotion in my GF about a month or 2 after we started dating. In my opinion you are setting yourself up for some serious depression when you do meet a girl and start dating her. Its very very rare for that first or even 2nd or 3rd or 4th one to be truly lasting." You think I don't want to date someone unless they're 'the one?' That's ridiculous, I'm not that naive. I KNOW full well the first person I date will probably not be 'the one.' The problem is that you just don't realize that girls around here ARE like that. They don't want to date guys until they know they can get married to them first. So before you think it's my fault, acknowledge the environment I'm in. "You dont have to date multiple girls at once, but you're better off dating without a whole lot of emotional investment right away, this is not to say treat her badly, but be realistic about whether or not this is the girl you will one day marry, or would really want to marry." No, I don't, but I don't WANT to just DATE people just to get 'experience', I think that's insensitive and foolish. Note--I think that. In my situation, that just isn't something I'm going to do. I didn't think I needed to specify this, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate your insight and advice, it simply means I don't agree with it. Advice isn't something one shou;d just TAKE just because someone tells them to. I think that's very foolish, too. "Being at a Christian College full of conservatives does'nt necessarily mean what you think it does either. I dated a girl who went to a Christian College full of conservatives once. She was very conservative when other people were around, but it was a sham, she was extremely kinky and perverted in the bedroom and at any time when no one she knew was around. She was the wildest woman i ever dated when you get down to it, but she was like another person when her family or friends from school were around." No offense, but she doesn't sound like she was a good Christian. Not saying she's a bad person at all, just saying that Christians believe lying to others and passing yourself off as one person and acting like another outside of the community is, well...lying. Being fake. She was being fake to someone, obviously--acting ne way around some people and the opposite around others. She shouldn't be at a Christian College if she doesn't enjoy it there or has to pass herself off as something she's not. Human nature IS human nature, and lying is also lying. No offense. I think that maybe, JUST maybe, I might understand how the people around here think a little better than you. Not trying to be mean, I just don't appreciate you implying that you somehow know my friends better than I do. You could be right, EVERYONE I KNOW could be a fake. Possible. Definitely. Likely? Not very much at all. Anyway, I'll re-state again: I am appreciative of your insight and perspective. It helps me look at things in a different light and go, "Oh, hey, here's a new perspective that most people probably follow." But at the end of the day, I shrug and go, "Well, that's fine and good, it just doesn't sound right in my situation." This thread as well as the other (and some convos with my friends) has led me to change a number of my opinions on this matter, and that was why I started the threads in teh FIRST place--to learn new stuff, see new perspectives, and see what I would alter in my own beliefs. But there are some key aspects of who I am that just don't change, you know? This has been an educational thread. Sorry if I don't seem appreciative for the opinions/advice the whole throughout, I just like pressing the issue so that people will tell me more and more of their side of things, thus enabling me to potentially learn more and more. It's been a good thread, I apologize for any bitterness, it was unintentional, I'm merely thirsty for learning more of the world around me. I'm sure some of you guys will hear about my 'adventures' in college with girls as time goes on. Well, I'm done here, then. Thanks for your time, guys. |
| Jomb Posts: 324/448 |
Just because you did'nt say something does'nt mean it was'nt implied. Until after my post when Snow Tomato chimed in, you basically told everyone who tried to give you advice that they were wrong and what they were suggesting was foolishness.
if "being super nice and friendly and holding back physical attention" works so well, then why dont you have a GF right now? Why do you want advice at all if that is the path to sucess and what you are already doing? Should'nt this be you giving everyone else advice on how to be super nice and friendly and hold back physical attention as a technique to attract women? If you attempting to date a girl causes her to hate you and never want to be your friend, then one of 2 things is going on. either 1) you went way too overboard with the "being bold" thing and she thinks you are a stalker, or 2) she is a prissy jerk and not worthy of your friendship anyway. About the kissing thing, I could swear you said earlier that you did'nt want to kiss anyone until after marriage, if i misread that somewhere than my apologies. I'm not suggesting you walk up to a girl you are attracted to but dont know and say"hello baby" then immediately french kiss her. I would'nt even do that. I dont normally kiss a girl until the second date, or maybe the end of the first if it went extremely well. By the end of a date or 2 you know her well enough to like her. You dont have to me madly in love with her to kiss her. Its very obvious to me that you have little to no dating experience. You actually somewhat remind me of me when i had little or no dating experience. I used to not want to date anyone unless she was "the one", then i would invest a tremendous amout of emotion in my GF about a month or 2 after we started dating. In my opinion you are setting yourself up for some serious depression when you do meet a girl and start dating her. Its very very rare for that first or even 2nd or 3rd or 4th one to be truly lasting. If you happen to date your soul mate right off the bat you a basically a lottery winner. You dont have to date multiple girls at once, but you're better off dating without a whole lot of emotional investment right away, this is not to say treat her badly, but be realistic about whether or not this is the girl you will one day marry, or would really want to marry. Most girls are not looking at dating the way you are, even if they seem to be or pretend to be. Being at a Christian College full of conservatives does'nt necessarily mean what you think it does either. I dated a girl who went to a Christian College full of conservatives once. She was very conservative when other people were around, but it was a sham, she was extremely kinky and perverted in the bedroom and at any time when no one she knew was around. She was the wildest woman i ever dated when you get down to it, but she was like another person when her family or friends from school were around. Human nature is human nature i guess, no matter where you are in the US. |
| Snow Tomato Posts: 734/798 |
Don't assume that people who make lousy choices don't have hopes are dreams. That is a terrible mistake to make. Everyone is worth knowing, everyone is worth trying to get to know. Don't limit yourself because you don't agree with their lifestyle. Cause then you're ruling out almost half of the human race.
Most people appreciate someone who's genuine and tells it how it is. And another thing, if you want to be loved.. really loved. You have got to love yourself. Do your own thing and it will click I promise. You just need patience. |
| D3stiny_Sm4sher Posts: 218/226 |
Thanks.
I wish being a thinker and dreamer was something people here admired, but they don't. 
I can't really 'meet new people' wen I'm in a college out in the middle of nowhere--not until a new year starts, which it is. There's a LOT of AMAZING people here, don't get me wrong at all. I love it here. That's why I've stayed. But just being a thinker, a dreamer, someone who has hopes/dreams...that just doesn't seem so important around here if they're hopes and dreams that aren't identical (I'm using that word on purpose) to the other person, they're irrelevent, it seems. But thanks, Snow, your advice sounds more like it's aimed at what I'm actually looking for. Maybe I should try to be more mysterious, or something. |
| Snow Tomato Posts: 730/798 |
I haven't read the whole thread besides the first post, and I know that's looked down on generally.. but something popped out at me.
"Short tips. Be cocky, be arrogant, be proud, be confident. Girls don't like seeing their guy shy and stutter. Don't give out compliments for loosely. It's weird. Be INTERESTING." That one. One phrase specifically. Be INTERESTING. Yeah, that one usually works. If you come off as mysterious, a dreamer, a thinker and as someone who has ambitions hopes and dreams... usually more than not.. a girl will end up in your lap. It might even be the one you're trying to reach. Don't go too out of your way to try and get that one girl. Honestly, be yourself.. step into a new place with new people and just be yourself.. don't try to impress anyone.. be genuine and be yourself. Eventually it'll click. And that's my advice on getting the girl (or guy) of your dreams. |
| witeasprinwow Posts: 439/613 |
For the love of god, make your posts shorter. Condense and edit. Half of what you said could have been cut out.
It really is. There's a basic set of signs almost all girls give to people they like: maintaining eye contact, intentional "accidental" physical contact, playfullness, competition (ever wonder why pool halls are hot dating spots?), lauging on cue. If she does all those, she either likes you or is intentionally acting like she likes you. If she says she doesn't like you but she does all those things, she is either lying to you or herself. She may be unwilling to admit that she likes you, or she might be using you for something else.
No, you just don't understand what the word 'intangible' means. You can measure things that cannot be touched. Maybe measure isn't the right word. You are estimating or judging how awesome they are.
You restated exactly what I said, and told me I was wrong in saying it.
Look, dating is like economics. It's like trading in the stock market, even. Everyone wants to find that perfect Mr. or Mrs. Right. Some of them will mess up and end up selling themselves for less, some of them will hold on too long and crash and burn to to impossible standards, and then some of them will get out at the top with the man or woman they've always dreamed of. You are shy and YOU want a girl who likes you for being shy. That is something YOU want in a girl. You are cutting down the number of woman who will be willing to date you (and who you will be willing to date) via this requirement. This is something you are choosing to be picky on. Obviously, you have to find a middle ground of standards vs availability. I'm not saying you should have no standards, but getting rid of your shyness would be a great way for you to become more dateable. You will meet more people, each of whom will like you more because you aren't shy. If you want to sit around, not change yourself at all, and hope that Ms. Dream Woman stumbles upon you and falls madly in love with you, go ahead, but let me tell you: If there is a girl like that, she is one in a billion, and the chances of her stumbling into you like that is slim to none. Einstien defined stupidity as "Doing something over and over again and expecting different results every time." If you want something different in your future, you have to take control and change your path in life, and that means taking control of yourself. Maybe it's not fair, maybe you weren't blessed with the natural ability to put women at ease, but it doesn't matter. You can win a game of poker without the best cards. You can either take control of your situation and reach for your dreams or give up and take whatever just so happens to fall into your lap. It's your choice. I think I'm done posting in this thread. |
| D3stiny_Sm4sher Posts: 216/226 |
Arrrrrr...*rubs temples*
Yea, there's definitely some miscommunication goin' on here... Jomb: - I want advice, I just want advice that actually makes sense within the context of where I live and people around here. Unfortunately, everyone (here or there) who has tried giving me advice on this does NOT live in an environment like mine, and the people in general think and act differenly than they do here. Also, stop putting words in my mouth. I never said the stuff I don't agree with is faulty, I said I don't AGREE with it. As in, I don't think it would work well in my situation, and it is unlike myself in a bad way. That's me, my opinion, I never said it was some fact that applies to all. - Being super nice and friendly and holding back physical attention DOES work, I have seen it work, it just hasn't worked for me yet. I don't need advice, I want it, to see if I really am doing something wrong, or if I just haven't met the right type of person yet. Last time I checked, friends were not something one needs. They're something I like to have, and there's no harm in having more friends. I always want another friend. Always. But I want something more than that with one person, yes. And I have taken risks, the thing is, I take them too early or too boldly. And if it doesn't work out, yes, I CAN lose something--I can lose a friend. And I thought I've said this already, but I'll say it again (or the first time), that I have made no vow or anything that I will never kiss, it's just that I'm not interested in that right now because I am not in a relationship with someone I'd want to do that with. Any type of physical stuff like that needs an emotional base to it (for ME). Thus, for me, dating is not something I can just jump into, it needs to be built on a strong basis--physicality is not strong, it's weak and fleeting, but emotional/mental bonds are strong. If I'm not friends with the girl, I'll feel VERY uncomfortable just making out or what-not with her, it would just be awkward. I'm sure when I finally am in a relationship with someone I will be very open tp physical stuff. It's not my morals or my standards, it's just...my tastes. witeasprinwow: Would I want to be around someone who is shy, insecure, and 'boring' (boring being based on one's OPINION, mind you, yet you keep treating it like it's some quantitative measurement, like a quart, or a meter, when it's not)? Sure I would, depending on the girl as a whole. If she was shy and insecure but sweet and kind, always going out of her way to do nice things for people but being modest about it, I'd think that was very admirable. Kissing is not the same as shaking hands around here and everyone doesn't just jump into dating relationships willy nilly. That doesn't mean there is 'no good advice' for this, it means that no one here seems to understand that environment well enough to be able to give advice that makes sense within that context. "You're making the 'awesome-ness' of a person into some physical, measurable factor, which is it isn't." "[bYes, it is. It isn't objective, but as people we all evaluate each other. " So you're saying that personality traits are physical and can be measured the same like inches, liters, and miles? They can't be. You acknowledge this, thankfully (and contradict your own sentence, although maybe you meant 'yes, it's measurable as in people evaluate you'). Yes, people evaluate each other. But what you didn't get from what I said earlier is that it's still all a matter of personal opinion--what one person thinks is arrogant another person may not. It's not a physical and tangible measurement that is universal. That was what I meant. You're treating it like it is when it's not. 'Obese' even, (though there is a scientific definition) is something that everyone has their own opnion on. Some girls think they are fat when they may, in fact, be of average weight. "If you want a girl who likes shy guys, then fine, but understand that you are being extremely picky and shooting for a tiny fraction of the human population. By that fact you are going to rule out a lot of awesome girls who just don't happen to like shy people. " I am NOT being extremely picky, it's other people who are being picky if me being shy is enough, by itself, for them to never be able to like me. That's THEM having high standards. You accuse me of having high standards, yet you keep telling me I need to change in order to get girls to notice me--girls don't need to do anything but be themselves for me to notice or like them. Sure, I may notice flaws, but I'm open-minded enough to be bale to look past those and appreciate their good sides. "You obviously don't like people who have loose sexual morals, therefore you think they aren't awesome people. You have measured them in a way. Maybe it isn't a tangible measurement, but it exists none-the-less. " Again, you keep plastering undesire qualities to the concept of just 'not liking' people. I don't like loose sexual morals at all. That doesn't mean I hate everyone who has loose sexual morals. I recently met a girl who just walked right up to me and was leaning into me and all types of stuff--she already has a boyfriend, and I had just met her, and it made me very uncomfortable. But that one trait isn't enough for me to say, "Well, she's dumb and I hate her." She's funny, she's nice, she's outgoing, and she's a good person--she's just sexually loose. If her fiance is fine with that, well, OK. I mean, if I was dating her, it would be something I'd want her to change. But I don't think people should change to BE loved, they should change because THEY love. I don't expect everyone to think like that, obviously, but that's a belief that is important to me, so I'd probably not be able to be in a relationship with someone who didn't agree with it and thought I should change in order for me to like me. See, the thing is, some qualities are considered more important to indivual people than others. Being sexually loose is something that bothers me MUCH more than someone being shy. If me being shy is much more important to someone than how physical I am, we just don't match up very well, and there's no point trying to force it, now, is there? I'm not trying to force myself in a relationship, and it feels like you guys are telling me I should be. "If you really think she likes you, then you have no reason to fear hurting her." I'm horrible at telling if a girl likes me--but it doesn't matter, because none of my friends that are girls ever have TRULY liked me the way I've liked them, so it doesn't matter. If I can't tell if she likes me or not, or even if I think she might, I could hurt her, easily. I know I hurt the last girl when I told her I liked her. She felt guilty, she wasn't touched by it at all, and she was annoyed. All bad things. If I had told her 7 months earlier, she would've felt the same way. I know this because any time I hinted at it she would get uncomfortable, so I decided to stop hinting at it for a long time to avoid making her uncomfortable, but it got to the point where I had to get it off my chest and tell her. "Maybe I am over-confident, but when I am feeling unsure, I just tell myself: "Maybe she will be offended, but I am giving her the chance to know a good person like myself, and that is a good intention."" That's a very interesting way to go about it. I can't say if it's over-confident or not, though. It sounds kind of cocky to me, but...It is a comment of good self-esteem at the same time. --- Most of the time, when a person laughs, it’s an UNCONSCIOUS way of saying “I like you, and I’d like you to like me”. It’s a SOCIAL BONDING tool. Then I saw a TV program about laughter. It REALLY blew my mind… On the program they talked about the fact that people almost never laugh when they’re alone… and that if a man and woman are together you can predict if they’re going to get together by the type of laughter that goes on between them. Even more mind-blowing. Well, after getting into it more, I discovered that people almost ALWAYS laugh when they want other people to like and approve of them... and only RARELY do they laugh in response to a joke or something funny. What do you guys think of that? It makes sense to me, but at the same time... Don't people also laugh when they're uncomfortable? I know this girl from Taiwan laughs around me all the time, but it's not...like...a good laugh. It feels like a bad laugh. This happens no matter what I do--I try to be witty, I try to pick on her in a light-hearted way, anything. Always the same. But I've seen her around her friends, and she doens't laugh that same way. She laughs differently, in a good way. Many people have tried telling me the way that girl acts around me is a sign that she likes me--and every sign I give them convinces them further that it's true...until I tell them she doesn't like me, of course. Because she doesn't like me. She's told all of her friends that, she's told my friends that, and she's told ME that. But she gives off signs that seem say otherwise. Also, there have been times when girls have seemed to be interested in me but I find out later they weren't at all--I seem to do this myself to girls without even thinking about it. They always seem to think I like them in that way when I don't, so they feel uncomfortable. So, it's not as easy as one would think to tell if a girl likes you or not. |
| Jomb Posts: 319/448 |
It seems like you really dont want advice because all advice which contradicts what you are already doing is obviously faulty. But look at it this way, has what you've been doing worked out for you? Apparantly being super nice and friendly and never kissing anyone is not working for you or you would'nt need advice.
You should just go for it and shoot for a romance instead of a friendship. How many friends do you need? Seems like you have tons of friends but no girlfriend. What you want is a girlfriend, not yet another friend. Take some risks to get one. Try being slightly more bold than you have been. Dont go overboard with it, but make it clear you want a date. If it does'nt work out you've lost nothing, but at least you know you tried and did all you could. The no kissing till marriage thing is very odd and could be a stumbling block for you. I've never yet met a girl who would be cool with that. I've known lots of girls who wanted to wait till marriage for sex, but would probably have left me very quickly if i would'nt kiss them. Most girls will probably think you are odd after the second date with no kiss, and by the third they will automatically start thinking you are'nt attracted to them and are'nt interested in a relationship. I'd think the same thing if the roles were reversed and my girlfriend refused to kiss me. |
| witeasprinwow Posts: 434/613 |
Originally posted by D3stiny_Sm4sher I have no clue what to tell you. I don't think anyone here can give you advice. In fact, I don't think anyone can give you advice at all. There is no good advice for this. Originally posted by D3stiny_Sm4sher Would you want to be around someone who is shy, unfunny, insecure, overweight, and boring? It's all about you and what you want. If you want a girl who likes shy guys, then fine, but understand that you are being extremely picky and shooting for a tiny fraction of the human population. By that fact you are going to rule out a lot of awesome girls who just don't happen to like shy people. Originally posted by D3stiny_Sm4sher Yes, it is. It isn't objective, but as people we all evaluate each other. You obviously don't like people who have loose sexual morals, therefore you think they aren't awesome people. You have measured them in a way. Maybe it isn't a tangible measurement, but it exists none-the-less. Originally posted by D3stiny_Sm4sher If you really think she likes you, then you have no reason to fear hurting her. Maybe I am over-confident, but when I am feeling unsure, I just tell myself: "Maybe she will be offended, but I am giving her the chance to know a good person like myself, and that is a good intention." |
| D3stiny_Sm4sher Posts: 215/226 |
Haha.
Um...Yeeea... I think maybe I forgot one llittle detail...Sorry.  ;
I'm going to a Wesleyan Christian College full of conservatives. Kissing is NOT like shaking hands. Dating is not something you just DO. And people around here have standards that are higher than most others. "All I'm trying to say is that, even if a girl thinks you're the cutest thing ever, you have to get your own act together before getting anyone else involved. If you're overweight, get in shape. If you're shy, talk to random strangers until you aren't. If you have bland conversations, learn to be funny. If you dress like an idiot, buy some new clothes and learn how to dress. If you're too poor to do that, then get a job. " I think you're making a mistake in saying that personality traits like how funny or shy someone is should be CORRECTED. Being shy isn't bad, neither is being unfunny. Some people LIKE shy, quiet people, and others HATE people who try to hard to joke around. I don't know where I fall under shy/funny, but it shouldn't matter. Becoming less shy isn't some 'right' thing I should strive for, it's something that will happen if I actually want it to. Obesitiy is different because it's physical and actually affects your health. Dressing like an 'idiot' is all a matter of opinion. Some people like wearing zippers, baggy pants, and whatever. I don't myself, but I know people who do, an dthey those things look good. So that's another bad example. You're making the 'awesome-ness' of a person into some physical, measurable factor, which is it isn't. This last girl I liked? She's a klutz, she's childish, she's uber conservative, she lets her mom control her life, etc. etc. But I love her (as a person) so I can look past those things and see the GOOD in her, as the good is what actually MATTERS. Do I think letting her mom control her life is good? No, not one bit. But it's not important to me compared to her good qualities. "As for the girl? Make it clear you like her. Do you have problems with trust, or are you afraid of being hurt? You seem to take these relationship things awfully slow. " The problem is that you're assuming that knowing I like her is an easy thing. I mean, LIKING her. A crush is not something I think is good for basing a relationship like that on. I don't have problems with trusting people. However, how can I expect someone to trust me who i don't know very well? Trust is something that you need to build. I'm not that afraid of ME being hurt--I have expect it at this point. I'm afraid of hurting HER, because she could be very uncomfortable by me liking her, as this past girl was. She wasn't flattered, she didn't think it was cute, she 'wasn't touched' at all--she was appalled and disgusted. "I'm just saying that you shouldn't fake being "just friends" with someone in order to be something more than them. A LOT of guys do this without really thinking about it. " OK, see, now, I'm no longer confused. At all. You thought that I was some shallow person who only wants to get to know a girl in order to date them. Of COURSE that's stupid. I've never done that, that's WHY I don't tell them I like them right away, because they might assume that. Liking someone and becoming friends because I want to date them does not happen. I become someone's friend first because friendship is, in my opinion, what any kind of relationship should e built on--not just raw attraction. Anyway, it's not that I'm opposed to kissing, it's just... I think kissing and sexual acts are pointless and stupid unless they're with someone you love and are devoted to. I will probably want to kiss a girl once I fall in love completely and build a romantic relationship full of trust, etc. But I haven't yet. And that aside, emotional elements are what excites me more than physical ones--I want physical elements to support and embrace the emotional ones. Anyway, some good conversation goin' on, thanks for input, peoples. Also, all of these things you guys keep saying are how 'most people' act... Well, around here, those things...aren't...  |
| Black Lord + Posts: 158/273 |
Originally posted by Silvershield I'm not saying that that's my very own opinion, but with most members of the female species that I've run across in my day, they throw around kisses like it's nothing. I myself wouldn't even kiss on the first date. I'm just saying, to a lot of people these days, kissing (and even stuff more intimate) is like shaking hands. I'm not saying that for everyone... but I know that I'm in the minority when it comes to saving intimacy for serious relationships. |
| Silvershield Posts: 311/587 |
To address a bit of a side topic that has risen, I really don't know if the advice hawked by Cosmo is really to be taken as the end-all of what is "right" (whatever "right" might be). I'm one of the more chaste people my age that I know, and I also have one of the more conservative opinions regarding physicality between a dating couple, but I think delaying a first kiss until the altar is a bit extreme. It bothers me that kissing is, in fact, no more than "shaking hands" (as expressed by Black Lord), and I personally avoid it until an actual relationship is established beyond "we met at a party and I think that chick is kinda cute," but I can't bring myself to demonize it as the original poster seems to do.
Beyond kissing, though, things become more serious. I believe in maintaining one's virginity until marriage, yes, but even steps of physical contact that come between a simple kiss and a "home run" are to be reserved for a committed, long-term, earnestly devoted and serious relationship. Just thought I'd step in as a kind of middle ground between the original poster and the idea that physical contact is to be engaged in freely without qualm. |
| Black Lord + Posts: 156/273 |
Originally posted by witeasprinwow Quoted for truth. Thing is, I think for the most part (not all the time), people go out with people that are on the same level of attractiveness, intelligence, and drive (not wealth). I admit, ocassionally you'll find the one couple where one of them is super smart/attractive/ambitious and the other isn't, but for the most part, if one person wants to go places, and the other just wants to exist, it's not gonna work out. And with the whole kissing thing, these days... kissing is like shaking hands almost... hell, cosmo tells chicks that after three dates it's okay to start with the really dirty stuff. So you might wanna rethink that kissing thing, it'll make for some misread signals if you don't. |
| witeasprinwow Posts: 431/613 |
If you want an AWESOME girl, but you're not an AWESOME guy, then why do you think she would bother with you? If she's such an awesome girl, then certainly she could do better than an average guy. Which is where the whole self-improvement thing stems from.
All I'm trying to say is that, even if a girl thinks you're the cutest thing ever, you have to get your own act together before getting anyone else involved. If you're overweight, get in shape. If you're shy, talk to random strangers until you aren't. If you have bland conversations, learn to be funny. If you dress like an idiot, buy some new clothes and learn how to dress. If you're too poor to do that, then get a job. As for the girl? Make it clear you like her. Do you have problems with trust, or are you afraid of being hurt? You seem to take these relationship things awfully slow. At some point you just have to make the jump. Pull the trigger. If you build it up forever the girl might get the wrong message and move on. Of course, considering you posted that you don't even want to kiss your wife before marriage... I don't know what to tell you. Good luck finding a girl who shares those virtues and NOT getting divorced in two years. -- Even though it seems like Delilal was disagreeing with me, I think she actually made some good points, and that what she and I were saying aren't mutually exclusive. While I'd say she's in the minority in that she only dates friends, I agree that there's nothing wrong with making that jump. I'm just saying that you shouldn't fake being "just friends" with someone in order to be something more than them. A LOT of guys do this without really thinking about it. Also, like Delilal said, make your intentions known but be SUBTLE about it. Coming on too strong is a no-no. And I completely agree on the "arrogance is not confidence" thing. I joke about being the best, but I make it clearly known that I am joking. I'm slightly cocky, but not THAT full of myself. |
| D3stiny_Sm4sher Posts: 214/226 |
You're taking 'being myself' way way too literally. What if me, being myself, wants to lose weight? I'm still being myself, I'm choosing to change certain aspects of me.
I think it becomes a problem when you start doing it for someone else in order to get them to like you. I don't think it's intelligent to change for others to love you, but to change BECAUSE you love others. Or yourself. |
| jeff Posts: 91/213 |
Originally posted by HighSorceressDelial Originally posted by HighSorceressDelial completely and utterly false, huh? none of the advice they give(or what you quoted; i don't really feel like reading a long thread) sounds like advice for a serious relationship. it sounds more like to me like one night stand stuff. i never bothered with dating because i'm a mysogynist, but i like this one: Originally posted by some dude why do you think that's bad advice? it's good for some people. saying you should be yourself kind of sounds bad, like avoiding things you need. what if you're someone who makes cruel jokes about rape and aids(like me)? do you think being yourself would help a gal like you? i don't(and trust me it doesn't). or let's say you might be overweight, and working out so you lose weight becomes a bad thing because it's not being yourself? i think that's what he means, is that, you'll have to change a lot. relationships are in the end, an ultimate compromise. |
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