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| User | Post |
| Ogama Dobe Posts: 12/102 |
Hatred is something that we feel regardless. It is necessary in some respects because if there was no hatred there would be far too many people on this planet. There already are, also we cannot but help just hate because it is nearly impossible for you to like everyone you meet and if you do there is something strange going on. |
| rubixcuber Posts: 105/356 |
The world population went from 2.5 billion in 1950 to 6 billion around 2000. How do the people killed in WW2 have any significant effect on overpopulation at all? |
| Deleted User Posts: 18/-7750 |
''The Human Need For Hatred''
No, more like '''The Human Instinct of Hatred'' It is a must for any living organism, to hate each other to some point, so that random members of the species kill an amount of their own species in order to control population. With humans, if you think of it, if we hadn't had the anti-jewish racism in ww2, we would be overpopulated... |
| RedFlameZero Posts: 187/276 |
Originally posted by witeasprinwow.... Your off by a year, and it was atleast 1:30 i couldnt think >.< |
| Crayola Posts: 47/94 |
To sum it all up we hate to feel superior, to express conflict, to feel accepted, and to use as a scapegoat.
Examples of each: Superioritical hate: We yearn to feel better about ourselves. Telling yourself and others that you are better than a group Or a person makes you feel better about yourself. Expressing conflict: This is the most logical reason to hate someone. When you hate because or a negative affect that someone or something has had on your life. Feeling accepted: Sometimes you must hate a group or a person to belong .If you want to fit in with the KKK your going to probably have to hate blacks, Jews, and homosexuals. Hating as a scapegoat: Blaming ethnic groups or others as a means of Hiding the true cause of a problem. Ex: Person asks “Why don’t I have a job?” Redneck answers “Its cause the Mexicans took all the jobs” Real answer: It’s because you are lazy and a drunk. Those were all just rough (very bad) examples. There are many reasons to hate and some hate is inevitable in any society. Some hate is just, maybe even needed. But it’s important that we learn to get past some of our issues with different peoples. We need to start to see each other as people not stereotypes. So I conclude hate may be bad but if you hate, hate with reason. |
| ziffhasnoaim/password Posts: 229/292 |
I was thinking something like you know...Sicily.  |
| witeasprinwow Posts: 355/613 |
He's 15. He doesn't go to the 'Cuse college. I like the "i can't quite think of it but you get it" part. By like I really mean don't like. |
| ziffhasnoaim/password Posts: 228/292 |
...Which Syracuse are you from? That's some REALLY weird capitalization. |
| RedFlameZero Posts: 185/276 |
The human being needs Hatred, Hatred is a Universal replacement, like if we dont know how to React Hatred twords the Cause of the Problem/Death. Example: Your Best Friend dies and you just dont know how to React, you start to Hate yourself for Diffrent reasons or Reasons that are linked to his Death. Also Hatred is directed twords the Unknown such as, well i cant quite think of it but you get it |
| Jomb Posts: 295/448 |
wite - I completely agree with "What we could really use is different degrees of sex offender", 100%. Unfortunately as it is now there is no attempt at all to do something like this, it's all mechanical, like robots they get out their law-book, and do exactly what it says, which in this case says Statutory Rape = sex offense, therefore defendant is registered sex offender. Then, once considered registered sex offender you are treated the same as any other registered sex offender regardless of whether it was consentual sex with someone in high school or the violent abduction and rape of a toddler. Statutory Rape type cases are by far the most common type of sex crime, so we're talking about a majority (or perhaps the largest minority, I'd have to go crunch some numbers) of registered sex offenders who probably ought not be considered highly dangerous. The registry itself helps very little as in most states it is very vague about what the crime actually was or what the events of the crime were, basically leaving you thinking the worst. To compound the confusion the charge's name oftentimes is unrelated to what happened, due to plea deals or over-zealous prosecutors. For example, i know of a guy who has a charge of sexual-abuse of children, 3rd degree. You'd immediately think "child molestor!" but actually he should have Statutory Rape as his charge because what he did was very similar as my friend, but come plea deal time he took that charge because technically it is a lesser charge and carries less time.
But regardless i still think anyone who goes X number of years crime-free and really makes every attempt to turn their life around ought to have a second chance, there needs to be some kind of hope for a better life for these people, or else what motivation is there to change? If society wont have you, there is always criminal society and they'll take anyone. |
| Rom Manic Posts: 212/557 |
I don't think we need hatred. We hate because we are provoked to hate. But even that can be an illusion in the sense that we do not hate at all, we just are indisposed against something for whatever reason, be it prejudice or propaganda or whatever. |
| Arwon Posts: 326/631 |
Unless THEY'RE THE SAME PERSON!!! |
| witeasprinwow Posts: 315/613 |
Originally posted by Arwon I'm not really sure what position I'm arguing here, honestly. I was just responding to Jomb's posts as I read them with whatever I thought about them. What we could really use is different degrees of sex offender. The guy who rapes a 3 year old and the 18 year old who did a 17 year old are entirely different kinds of people. |
| Arwon Posts: 324/631 |
I'm a bit unclear here, wite. Are you arguing that statutory rapists being treated like other sex offenders is right, or just?
I don't think statutory rape should be treated the same way as other sex crimes at all. Make it a different category, keep them off the "sex offender" lists, and so forth. Certainly don't give them the whole pariah-leper treatment. I'd even go so far as to say "yes, even if one person is much older". Sure, it's icky, but if a 16 year old chooses to fuck a 30 year old then that's categorically not the same as sexual assault or rape. |
| Jomb Posts: 294/448 |
Age of consent laws are typically very confusing to people who are educated college people, now imagine how confusing they are to high school drop outs. I've lived in many different states over the years and its always different. In at least one state i've lived in my friend would not only not be a "sex offender" but would have committed no crime. Unfortunately in the one he is in he would have been better off killing her than having consentual sex with her.
So then why does'nt my friend fit the profile of paragraph 2? His motivation was love, not greed. People do things under the influence of love that they would'nt ordinarily do, I know i've done things i'm very embarassed by later! There will always be some slimey people who try to take advantage of the system. Most people who have committed a crime dont fit this profile, so its unfair to treat them as if they are all the most heinous drug dealer/murderer. I was actually involved in an internship way back when i was a psych major in which we looked at the relapse rates of people in the area. Guess what, out of over 200 people with sex crimes only 40 or so re-offended over a 10 year period. And that was counting non-sex crimes and petty parole violations as re-offending. Most of those were for being caught with alchohol, getting a DUI, having a playboy magazine, being involved in a fist-fight (most likely provoked into it). Only 7 had actually gone back and done a new sex crime. So even if you take all that petty stuff as being serious, that means there were 160 men who had apparantly changed. Or at least had'nt done it again. So why cant they have a second chance? Some people do change. When i was a teen i was once arrested for shop-lifting. I've never stolen anything since, because i saw the error of my ways. I learned from my mistake. Luckily for me i was a teen and so i got a second chance. My friend will not be so lucky, even if 50+ years go by with no new charges. This is a great tragedy to me and something which our society would be benefitted by correcting (though i doubt we will in this era of fear and paranoia). |
| witeasprinwow Posts: 314/613 |
First off, let me share a bit of Maryland law, which is similar to what you are talking about in your first paragraph:
The age of consent in Maryland is variable depending on who is consenting to who. Once you are 18, you can consent to anyone older than 18, no matter what the age gap. Before you are 16, I believe you can only consent to people under 16... I'm not too sure on this law. But once you are 16 you can consent to people within a certain age range of you... I believe the gap is 2 or 3 years, I forget. Anyways, in that case a 16 year old can still consent to a 18 or 19 year old, but not a 20 year old or a 30 year old or whatever. I pretty much agree with your second paragraph, if I understand it correctly. On your third paragraph... That's a great hypothetical system, but I don't think it works in real life. If you are slimy enough to do legitimately terrible things and get thrown in jail, you are probably slimy enough to fake rehabilitation and get out of jail. Ever see the movie Sawshank Redemption? Remember how the one black guy always sucks up to the parole board and talks about how he found God? Something like that. |
| Jomb Posts: 293/448 |
Whether or not puberty is 100% complete is irrelevant, as it is obviously mostly complete. In most historic societies, almost all our ancestors, regarded adulthood as beginning around 14. It is a very modern concept that we are still virtually infants until 18, then magically full adults. It's over-simplified and out of touch with reality. Some people may not completely finish puberty until they are in their late 20's. Does that mean they are still small children? On a more empirical level, i remember what it's like to be 15, and i had a very strong interest in sex and romance at that age. I was not some innocent child to be conned into sex, as if i did'nt even know what it was. I dont know what wiki says, i rarely consult it. Last time i read the DSM, which was several years ago, to be considered a pedophile one would have to have a deep interest in sex with pre-pubescent children, usually defined as under age 13, while at the same time being over 5 years older than the objects of their lust.
I would agree that under most circumstances someone who engages in extreme and damaging behavior is mentally ill and should be treated as such. The motivation for the crime is the biggest indicator for me as to whether it was mental illness or just bad judgement. If the motivation was monetary, such as killing your wife for insurance money, then maybe you are'nt mentally ill, just greedy. If the motivation was that you killed some random stranger because god told you it was the anti-christ, then maybe you are mentally ill. In our society we are too caught up on getting revenge and as a gut reaction consider many obvously insane people as sane for legal purposes. Being mentally ill does not mean there is no possibility for redemption, it means you are quarantined for your and others safety, in a humane environment, until such a time as you are cured. In theory this is how it should be, whether it works out that way or not is a whole other discussion. But even people who are not mentally ill and make a bad decision deserve a chance at redemption. People change over time. Someone who is a 2-bit thug in their youth may deeply regret that later in life and change. They should be given that opportunity, if the change is genuine. My point is that our system has become so hateful and willfully blind in this area that my friend will never have that chance. period. He could save 100 children from a burning building and instead of being seen as a hero he'd still be seen as "sex offender". Probably his motivation for rescueing the children would be called into question. |
| witeasprinwow Posts: 310/613 |
Originally posted by Jomb Well, first, this is wrong. Wikipedia, as well as other sources, tend to indicate maximum height is not reached in girls until around age 15, and puberty in girls will usually not be over until 17. Furthermore, the how mentally developed the child at the age is also a factor, perhaps more-so than wether puberty is complete or not. I'm going to read the rest of your paragraph later, but can you do me (and probably other people) a favor, and break up your paragraphs a little more in future posts? See how I have two different paragraphs for two different points? It makes what I have to say a lot easier on the eyes and a lot easier to read, and thus hopefully people are more willing to read my posts. I'm not saying you have to use perfect grammar or something, just break it up with some enter keys. EDIT: Originally posted by Jomb I would say you have this backwards, if not completely wrong. First, I think you can make a fairly strong argument for anyone who goes out and does something extreme (IE shooting up a McDonalds for no reason or something) being mentally insane. Second, assuming there are sane people who do wrong things... Why do they deserve more of a chance at rehabilitation than people who are mentally ill? In fact, I feel it should be the other way around. People who are sane and do terrible things are cruel people who have no morals, while people who are mentally ill have may be good-natured people who have other problems. Other problems we can fix, or at least control, but I'm not so sure you can just turn a bad person into a good person. I do not mean to pass judgement on you friend here. I am simply arguing, in the hypothetical, against a justification you used, because I feel it does not hold water. |
| Jomb Posts: 292/448 |
Do you really know the consequences of the laws ahead of time? I sure as hell would'nt have dreamed in my wildest fantasies that you could get this sort of nightmare punishment over a consentual relationship with a 15 year old at age 18-19. Lets get real for a moment, age 15 is not a little kid, it is well past puberty. A large percentage of people have already lost their virginity by or around 15, this is not a rare or unusual state of affars, actually its pretty normal. 15 is a minor, but not a child, and it does'nt make someone a pedophile for being attracted to a 15 year old. This extreme draconian punishment for this "crime" would be hysterically comical if it were'nt so damn serious. This all happened several years ago My friend is still in prison. In prison he has been severely beaten and raped because his cover sheet says "sex offender" on it. Where is the justic for him? There is none, because society says he is "sex offender" so he deserves no justice. I know both parties to this "crime" personally. My friend was a quiet, shy and gentle man. He was'nt out to take advantage of her, he had feelings for her. And she cried when they sent him to prison because she did'nt want that to happen. She is over 18 now and still feels terrible about what happened.
But even beyond this case, there is something very ugly about this hatred. The people who really have problems are mentally ill. You cant tell me that a guy who was perfectly sane and rational would decide of his own free will that he wants to have sex with small children. I see nothing positive coming out of hating people who are ill. I feel pity for them. The ones who are truly dangerously mentally ill need to be treated as such rather than treated as if they were ordinary sane people who just decided one day to go rape a child. But the ones who are not mentally ill and got caught up in an understandable situation should have some hope for redemption. Taking hope away from someone, isolating them from everyone else and subjecting them to institutionalized hatred is not going to help them, in fact that could very well drive otherwise sane men to become irrational and/or severely depressed. This is only going to compund the problems mentally ill people are facing. So I'd say yes, now my friend has been put into a category from which it is acceptable to hate and discriminate against him, because there is no way out for him. Its not the same as discriminating against a bad employee, because a bad employee can change their work ethic and become a good employee. It would be more like taking an employee who make one careless error on their first day and then holding that over their head the rest of their life and making it so no one else can hire them by law. |
| ziratha Posts: 82/105 |
Simply, a common enemy brings people together. I don't think you are so bad if that guy over there is worse. |
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