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| User | Post |
| Thexare Posts: 203/1104 |
Bumped by Marioman64. This is the second bump of his that I've had to close. 
*closes* |
| Ryoku Posts: 37/123 |
I am always gonna go for falco. When im him I can not be touched. I mainly am good with him because of his great skill to jump, which would allow me to dodge peopls attacks. |
| Marioman64 Posts: 14/64 |
I can beat all my friends with Brown Mario(I also name him POO for humor).
He has good ariel attacks and his FIREballs bounce(pills suck) ______________________________________________________________ If I want to freeze people permanantly in the air, I use the Ice climbers and turn on Mr. Saturns...for I am the Glitch Master! |
| Eponick Posts: 35/85 |
I would have to go with Link.
He has good range, decent knockback, decent power, and if you get good with the hookshot you have to hit him pretty far to knock him off the stage. His wavedash is kinda weak but he makes up for it in other areas. I still play the game like crack even though I bought it on release. |
| Light PKMN Posts: 15/51 |
Zelda/Her alter ego
She Is deadly with Wavedashing and swaping betwen her 2 forums. And her teleport has saved my Buttox more than once |
| BPM Posts: 11/77 |
Originally posted by BPM Oh, ok. Sorry. I'm just paranoid about everything. And I mean EVERYTHING. So I take alot of stuff personally. |
| Schweiz oder etwas Posts: 127/2046 |
Originally posted by BPM No, I meant you were making a simple, sweet post in the midst of my and Kyouji's brawling, it seemed easier to just get back to what you were talking about. |
| BPM Posts: 9/77 |
Um. What's wrong with BPM? Hunh? |
| Skreename Posts: 8/1427 |
I'm not that good at the game, but my favorite characters are Roy, Falco, Dr. Mario (in black) and Pichu (in goggles). Yes, I know the little yellow rat is useless, but he's got goggles. GOGGLES! How can you NOT love that?
(That, and I enjoy how it doesn't seem to obey reality too well. Its moves seem slightly... mistimed to me.) |
| Eval Posts: 7/12 |
I know what you mean Grey. Theres no need to use wavedash to win some matches. Even the best Marth in the world, Ken, dont use wavedash at all. But seriously wave dash can do some nice trick and if use very well it comes very in handy. You see for example, a Fox wave shine can be fucking annoying and its thanks to the wave dash that fox can combo his D+B and its very painful. So theres no need to use wave dash to win but its a very useful skill and very hard to learn to perform a perfect wavedash.  |
| Schweiz oder etwas Posts: 125/2046 |
(21:41:31) Stylish Alastor: So you going to answer what I said in the topic?
(21:41:33) Stylish Alastor: =/ (21:42:05) DetectiveGrey: oh god dammit do we have to keep having this discussion? (21:42:19) Stylish Alastor: Honestly I'd prefer it if we didn't. (21:42:39) DetectiveGrey: yeah because see (21:42:43) DetectiveGrey: we both present very valid arguments (21:42:46) DetectiveGrey: and plus (21:42:48) DetectiveGrey: look at BPM (21:42:49) DetectiveGrey: look at him (21:42:52) DetectiveGrey: LOOK AT HIM (21:43:12) DetectiveGrey: See what he said? Do you really want to ignore that? (21:43:17) Stylish Alastor: Not really. (21:43:20) DetectiveGrey: Exactly. (21:43:21) Stylish Alastor: I see your point though (21:43:23) DetectiveGrey: Right. (21:43:28) DetectiveGrey: Friends? (21:43:58) Stylish Alastor: We're not going to get anything accomplished this way. We'll still think the other is wrong regardless, and there's much bigger idiots to keep track of. (21:44:06) Stylish Alastor: So... Yeah. (21:44:10) DetectiveGrey: Good. |
| BPM Posts: 7/77 |
I use Roy, and Dr. Mario.
I just love their attacks, like Roy's B button, and Dr. Mario's cape. Oh, and I love how Dr. Mario throws pills. |
| Alastor Posts: 259/8204 |
Originally posted by GreyJust because you can win without it, doesn't make it useless. Some of the best people in the world at Smash don't use it, but this doesn't make it not worth using in any way, but that doesn't really matter. The point is it seems like you merely have a disproportionately high skill level based on who is near you. That proves nothing, though. I can beat everyone around me with Mewtwo. Does this mean non-Mewtwo characters are useless? No. No it does not. Originally posted by GreyThis argument doesn't make sense. Not designed to be played strategically? Just... What the hell? With all the techniques clearly designed to be in the game - crouch cancelling, directional influence, light shielding, and power shielding, just to name a few out of the staggeringly high amount - you can't really can't say the game wasn't made to be played strategically. And there's not just a fwe thigns you can do out of a wavedash. There's many, and no one thing can counter them all. Also, your examples suck. Kirby's suck has quite a bit of lag and is horridly easy to get around, and the Reflector, while a first-frame move, won't stop physical moves of high priority, or anything with a disjointed hitbox. Originally posted by GreyThat's true. It probably isn't. However, wavedashing can gain you much more than a few milliseconds, which you would know had you actually been paying attention. Originally posted by GreyIf that's their tendency, then fine. It's not like you absolutely HAVE to wavedash during everything, and that tendency will leave them vulnerable to other things anyway. That tendency likely won't get them out of what you can do with wavedashing if you vary your tactics, though... And wavedashing is by no means hard to pull off. It just takes practice, is all, but once you get it down, it's very, very easy. The notion that attacking is faster than wavedashing and attacking is also incorrect. As one example, If they're close to you but out of the hitbox of your desired attack, advancing until they are and then stopping so you can use a tilt or smash or whatever and then doing so is much, much slower than wavedashing forward and performing the chosen attack as you advance on them. Originally posted by GreyUgh. Grey, pay attention, please... Between all the different things wavedashing can do for you... That's just... I don't even know how to respond to the notion that it limits you to moving quickly. That's just... Incorrect. |
| Schweiz oder etwas Posts: 121/2046 |
Originally posted by Alastor the Stylish It's not ignorant, Kyouji, if I'm fully informed of the benefits of it and yet can still win a match without using the tactic. It'd be ignorant if I had never wavedashed (I can) and if I didn't win matches against wavedashers and then called them wavedash whores or something like that for it. Me saying wavedashing and wavedancing is useless is about the same as someone in a first person shooter saying X weapon is useless because they win with Y weapon all the time no matter how much more accurate/powerful/bigger ammo clip/statistically better it is. Hell, in gunbound I won matches without the use of equipment against bunge JD whores because I WAS A GOOD SHOT. I don't like the idea of wavedashing because it seems like people are trying to insert advanced tactics in a game that really isn't designed to be played strategically. Smash Brothers is literally a very hit-or-miss game. You hit, or you miss, and how fast your opponent is moving has no bearing on how fast you can think or react. It really doesn't matter what you do to a wavedash because no matter what your options will always be limited to what the game has to offer. If you opponent really knows exactly what you can do coming out of a wavedash they can just react with whatever will work. In some character's cases there's an all-encompassing technique for countering nearly everything your opponent has to offer, like Kirby just putting the suck on or the Fox/Falco reflectors. And it's not like the extra milleseconds you gain add up over time. You can't just say "Oh, I wavedashed myself a few extra seconds of free time, let's deliver an attack!" Time is relative, and extra portions of it are redeemed as soon as they're gained. I hate to break it to you, Kyouji, but in the grand frame of the human mind, a few milleseconds is NOT enough time to really get anything important done. Not only that, but believe me, I know -- a lot of the time mind games don't work on someone when their personal favorite options for the moment are to either wait for you to stop dicking around and attack them or just run up and smack you while you're trying to do a move that's first and foremost hard to pull off anyway and second something that would require you to do the move and execute an attack or other maneuver instead of just executing the secondary maneuver. When it comes right down to it, Attack = faster than Wavedash + Attack. That's my argument. Well, that and the fact that I can win matches without using wavedashes and in fact prefer using tactics that DON'T limit me to moving really fast along the ground. |
| Alastor Posts: 254/8204 |
"It's easy to make useless and it's easier to do?" What does that even mean?
Anyway, no it's not a fluff move because it greatly increases the speed at which you can do various things. It takes practice to do effectively, and wavedashing but not wavedashing effectively can easily cost you quite a bit, but that does not change the fact that faster speed means less wasted time. If two people are of equal skill, but one wavedashes (effectively, mind you) then they can accomplish more in a match in the same time. Thus, in effect, what you are saying is that efficiency is worthless, and that's just not true. The preceding paragraph made an argument solely based on its time-saving abilities, which were explained in my previous post. However, it does not take in to account the superb mindgames you can play with it. Simply put, when you wavedash, you have more options than when you don't; sure, you could follow up your dash with an attack, or you could quickly wavedash backwards, or you could do many other things. If you have more options and your opponent knows you have more options, then they are less likely to anticipate your actions, and thus are less likely to counter them (and of course, if they don't know you have more options, then when you pick the alternate options then they flatly won't counter them. Heh.) If they're wrong, they'll likely respond in a way that leaves them vulnerable; for instance, they might respond with an attack of higher priority, the recovery to which leaves them open to attack. Thus, the notion that wavedashing is useless fluff is simply an ignorant one. |
| Sinfjotle Posts: 128/1697 |
Grey's right, wave dashing is a fluff move.
If you aren't smart enough to be prepared for people to do it, you don't deserve to win, but if you keep your eyes open, its easy to make useless and it is easier to do, assuming you've played enough to know practically every move every character can do. |
| Blue Falkon Posts: 261/351 |
Originally posted by Clockworkz Do a directional A attack in the air and press L the moment before you hit the ground. You stand back up in half the time it takes normally. Kind of hard to do but you'll get used to it. I generally do not like using it. |
| Alastor Posts: 252/8204 |
No that's just a silly way to perform a technique to make you stop.
Wavedashing is essentially abuse of the physics of the game. To do it, perform a hop in to the air, and then quickly air-dodge in to the ground at any angle. Ideally, you do it within a frame of where the game counts as you leave the ground, and I believe the timing for this varies slightly between characters. You generally don't actually see your character leave the ground. The momentum from your air dodge will remain and your character will slide forward a distance determined by the angle of your dodge and your character's traction. For the purposes of various things, you're standing still, though. This is useful for when you need to quickly change directions, quickly come to a complete stop, fake out the opponent, accelerate quickly while landing from being airborne, perform tilt and smash attacks while in motion, run faster than your character can normally (does not apply for every character), and many, many other things. Due to differences in traction, it's more useful for some characters than others, but because of the sheer number of applications of it, any character will benefit from effective wavedashing. |
| Clockworkz Posts: 37/984 |
I'd call myself a decent player, but there's one thing I'm still a tad confused on: L Cancelling. How exactly do I do it? I know; I'm an idiot. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear how to do it, please.
Isn't wave dancing holding down on the control stick, then jumping and air dodging as soon as you press the jump button? |
| Zem Posts: 85/1097 |
Originally posted by Eval To clarify: the "wave" is the term I'm hung up on "Wave dash" is no clearer to me than "wave dance" |
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