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| 0 users currently in World Affairs/Debate. |
| User | Post |
| Deleted User Posts: 8/-7750 |
US troops need to get out of Iraq, Bush wanted oil, but he is wasting way more in invading Iraq than what he's actually pumping, and this kind of incidents will keep happening until the US leaves. |
| Billiards Koopa Posts: 96/174 |
OH! Sorry, I musunderstood...that IS a problem... |
| Skreename Posts: 993/1427 |
The issue is that at least a few expect to get SHOT because they DID STOP. Allowing medical service won't help if the people would still refuse to accept it. |
| Billiards Koopa Posts: 93/174 |
I meant that so people with a medical emergancy would STOP and not get SHOT by the guards. |
| Skreename Posts: 992/1427 |
That wouldn't change whether or not the people would trust the troops well enough to stop at the checkpoint. Also, once the bullet's gone through, there tends not to be too much that can be done to save either mother or child. |
| Billiards Koopa Posts: 71/174 |
All millitary check points should have medical centers to avoid tragic things like this. |
| ziffhasnoaim/password Posts: 15/292 |
And stopping at the check points gets you killed too! Who knows, maybe that Marine is going to blow your brains out all over the road because his buddy was killed in a bombing yesterday. Why in the FUCK would you trust the occupational force in your nation? Moreover, the damned Iraqi police force is so infiltrated by the insurgency that when they set up check points on the road the people crossing them are kidnapped and other shit. Again, it is a war zone. You don't trust those that are attacking your nation and killing your countrymen in revenge killings.
Americans didn't trust the British in the Revolution. Why should Iraqis trust the Americans during their occupation? |
| NetSplit Posts: 124/144 |
Because if you speed through their checkpoints, they're going to kill you. |
| ziffhasnoaim/password Posts: 2/292 |
Why in the flying hell would you trust a dude pointing an M16 at you and a pregnant woman in your car? Do you honestly think the majority of the population love having the occupational force running about and turning into fucking Crusaders? Face it. Iraqis aren't go to pay any kindness nor harbour any trust to a group of people that are willing to (in revenge, no less) kill 24 innocent civilizians or randomly slaughter 11 women and children. You know? For the hell of it. They trust them even less because they're an external force that is bringing an ideology that is alien to most of them. In addition they're seen as anti-ethical and aren't doing anything to prove that wrong. Again, I ask. Why in the flying hell would you trust these people? |
| Rom Manic Posts: 179/557 |
In all honesty, I don't think the driver gave a flying shit about the american checkpoint. He was getting to the hospital before the woman gave birth in his car.
It's what I'd do if I was living under an extremist government for 4 years. |
| Billiards Koopa Posts: 41/174 |
Originally posted by Scatterheart Until Bush gets the freaking boot. |
| Sabishii Posts: 27/60 |
For that matter, who even knows if the driver was calm enough to think clearly? I've heard rush to the hospital stories entailing everything from forgetting the woman in labor to forgetting which side of the road you're supposed to drive on.
It's entirely plausible that he could have lost the sense to stop at the checkpoint, as people often do in emergencies(need we repeat the plethora of "What's the number for 911/(your country's emegency number)?" stories?). Also an interesting idea, beneficii, that maybe the driver didn't trust the guards at the check point. I'm not entirely sure that I would want someone I didn't know was medically certified and who might not even speak my language to put their hands on someone in my charge, doubly so if it were my significant other. The whole idea is even more repulsive being a woman, I'm not enthused by the idea of having a total stranger try to help me give birth under those conditions, particularly not when theres a chance I could go to a hospital instead. It's a sad story, one of those cases where there's no one you can really blame. I'd call it an act of Murphy's Law - If it can go wrong it will, and in the worst possible order. |
| beneficii Posts: 134/310 |
MON,
To keep this discussion going: perhaps the populace doesn't trust the U.S. military to help them with these things? Perhaps that may be a sign that we should pack up and go home, lest we continue to have these tragedies. |
| Vyper Posts: 283/575 |
Originally posted by MathOnNapkinsNo need for any more posts, really. That sums it up perfectly. PS: You guys need to look at it from the Marines' point of view. If these civilians were hostile towards you, even unarmed (which the marines' probably didn't know), you can't take the chance of being killed. |
| MathOnNapkins Posts: 544/1106 |
This may sound very callous... but if you've been living under such conditions for 2+ years, it's just common sense not to drive past a checkpoint where people are aiming guns at you and WILL kill you. Cops in the US assist in births in cars all the time. It seems to me that military personnel are likely trained to help out in such situations. Unless I hear anything to contradict this, I consider the driver of the car to be at fault. |
| Wurl Posts: 810/842 |
Originally posted by Scatterheart I understand that these soldiers are conditioned to kill and it was likely instinct, but don't you think that comment is just a little harsh. If a living creature was coming out of my nads I doubt I'd be very happy about being hassled by foreign occupants. Plus, it often takes a very long time for cars to pass these checkpoints. |
| Tarale Posts: 1077/2713 |
Originally posted by Scatterheart You have a SCARY idea of teddy bears. 
(I also cannot live up to the thoughtfulness of Arwon's post) |
| Scatterheart Posts: 80/144 |
True that.
I was just trying to stay a little bit on topic... *Runs away and cries in jealousy at the intelligence of the previous post* LOWER TAX THRESH-HOLDS PLZ!!! 
Work placement agreements, WTF? Roving with Rove? (Nah, Rove's cool.) Kim Beazley is like one huge cuddly teddy bear though. Never really hear much about him on the news... Is he really so bad as to result in Howard being re-elected...(AGAIN?!  ) |
| Arwon Posts: 247/631 |
To be honest, kowtowing to the US's idiot foreign policy is, at this stage, pretty low on the reasons John Howard sucks. To me, Australia's lack of an independant or sensible foreign policy is a bipartisan bit of dumbness. Beazley probably would have joined the war and Crean never really outlined a Labor position.
Blaming Howard for our foreign policy situation is a bit silly. With things like: workchoices and all the shittiness that entails, refugees, the welfare system (middle class welfare and shockingly high effective tax rates and disincentives to work at the lower end), greenhouse emissions and fucking COAL IS THE FUTURE, the scorched earth approach to student unionism, his wretched cultural conservatism and jingoistic nationalism, the Australian Wheat Board shenanigans, the anti-terror and sedition laws, there's plenty other more salient reasons to hate the fucker than just Iraq. |
| Scatterheart Posts: 79/144 |
Meanwhile, our Prime Minister continues to kiss ass, and offer whatever support it can to the U.S.
Sure, having the U.S as an ally is all good...but havn't we done enough to ensure friendship? How much longer does this crap need to go on for? Which raises the question: How much longer will this "war" last for?  |
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