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| Deleted User Posts: 264/-7750 |
Originally posted by Jomb I suppose your fair there; I think forcing religion is pure wickedry of Satan himself(My Beliefs). (Your Beliefs) I think forcing religion is pure wickedry; they use the name of God to justify their wrongdoings, and that is wrong!! So I agree being against forcing religion. In my beliefs; God gives you a choice of free will, because ultimately if it were the otherway, then why wouldn't he just "make" you believe. God leaves the choice to us, and if we choose not to believe; so be it. |
| Jomb Posts: 163/448 |
If i came off as anti-religious it was unintentional. I'm not anti-religion per se, though i am most definately anti-state-instituted religion. I'm very much against organized religion being in charge of people's lives. That said, someone praying or finding strength in a higher power is fine, so long as they dont take the next step of forcing their beliefs on other people. That's extremely dangerous and exactly the reason we have and need to have the seperation of church and state.
Historical examples of church-lead brutality on the "heathens" is not irrelevant, and never will be. Ignoring history is a path tread by fools and the willfully-ignorant. The only non-religious group i can think of which had a genocide of sorts was the communists, but they did'nt do it "in the name of atheism!", it was done by some corrupt leaders to wipe out the potential threats to their power. If you must insist that everything is a religion and their is no such thing as atheism, then you have to say it was done in the name of their religion, which i guess would be communism. And as far as there being no recent religion-motivated atrocities going on, i seem to recall that not too long ago a christian group was participating in ethnic cleansing on some muslims in east europe, and a muslim group is trying to wipe us out in the name of religion as we speak. I have'nt heard it so much in this discussion, but i've seen it in dozens of similar debates, where some religious person will insist that Atheism is just another type of religion, which is silly. On that topic though, there is no "forced atheism" going on in this country that i'm aware of. I've never once seen the government rushing into a church and arresting everyone for praying, or teaching the youth that there is no God (or Gods). Not supporting any one religion or set of religions is not the same as out-lawing them or "forcing atheism" on people. There is such a thing as neutrality, its not always "you're for us, or you're against us" |
| Deleted User Posts: 259/-7750 |
I'm just trying to say there are good churches, instead of being united with the hypocrites is all... I didn't see that anywhere in here. |
| Ziff Posts: 831/1800 |
...That's what he said. |
| Deleted User Posts: 258/-7750 |
Originally posted by WurlOriginally posted by Valcion Not all of the churches are less "turn the other cheek"; some of you guys are flat out stereotyping that all the varieties of churches are out to "seek and destroy", but you've got to catergorize the churches being more on the "seek and destroy" side; instead of putting them all in one big group, seperate the hypocrites; some churches talk about winning their hearts to God, not wanting to condemn people; there's a lot of good churches with a "we all mistakes" mentality, and that's true; a lot christians make mistakes, and repent for them. Don't start hating all religious people, because there are many types of religions; they can't be one! |
| Wurl Posts: 674/842 |
Originally posted by Valcion Valcion wins this. Pat Robertson and the Christian Coalition are the ones usually behind this kind of stuff. And what they're behind is less "turn the other cheek" or actually helping, but rather condemn homosexuals and attack secularity or call for the killing of people (Hugo Chavez, terrorists). I could care less if a pastor supports a party or gives a political view as long as it's not a focus of the sermon to demonize opposition. |
| Sinfjotle Posts: 849/1697 |
I wanted to point out how wrong you are and rant and probably flame, but I realized something, it isn't worth my time to type it or your time to read it and type out a response.
I would like to point something out though and bring this back to a debate. Originally posted by Skydude The government isn't forcing atheism on people, other people are, just like other people try to force different religions on people. Do you think the government really cares if there is a minute of silence in school that doesn't effect them at all? It's the kid's parents who has to bitch about and bring it to court and say it's wrong and say why it's wrong. Naturally the media focuses on it and blows it out of proportion and either says people are trying to force a religion on people or that they're trying to take religion away from people. If someone were to go and lock off the church I go to, I'd be pissed to no end, I wouldn't stand for that at all. (Unless there was some sort of serious problem inside the church like it was about to fall down, but that's implied.) Luckily, that will never happen, because I live in America and I have the choice to follow any religion I want to follow. And if I wanted to go somewhere to pray, why the hell would it be a government/state building? Why wouldn't I go to a church or my own home? I mean seriously, why the hell are people complaining? |
| Skydude Posts: 1415/2607 |
Well, then I suppose if that's what he was trying to say earlier, then it wasn't until now that he actually succeeded in saying it to any extent. |
| Schweiz oder etwas Posts: 959/2046 |
Originally posted by Valcion Originally posted by Dracoon Originally posted by Dracoon before Phil and in reference to Phil ....Sky, I think he was trying to say that the entire time. |
| Skydude Posts: 1411/2607 |
As do I. Religion should not be used in that way. But you've (likely inadvertantly) hit the nail on the head right there. It's not that religion in government is bad per se, but that certain crappy individuals misusing it are the problem. So forced atheism is hardly the answer. |
| Sinfjotle Posts: 840/1697 |
Exactly Skyon. That's the whole point, people who use religion as a stage for doing things. That's what some poloticians do and that's the entire problem with religion in government.
I honestly wouldn't mind if a "Super Christian" took office, because he would follow what Jesus said very closely and make sure all people are treated equally. I have no problem with Christianity itself, or any religion really, I just have problems with people who use religion as a stage of sorts. |
| Deleted User Posts: 239/-7750 |
Perhaps this is why people are bitter towards the christian religion; you've got morons with evil works that act like they are of God; when for a fact they are clearly going against what's in the bible, straight up without a doubt! KKK was a good example of people who are "of God", everyone believes and tries to convince their subconscious that their doing right, so that they won't feel guilty for whatever they are doing. There's very few true dedicated disciples today following God's teachings in the Word. |
| Sinfjotle Posts: 838/1697 |
Yeah, but rallying under a religion is much easier than rallying under a new idea with no past history or real reason. |
| geeogree Posts: 118/207 |
anybody can "work in the name of God".... doesn't mean they -actually- are.... |
| Sinfjotle Posts: 832/1697 |
The KKK work in the name of God still Skydude. |
| Skydude Posts: 1392/2607 |
The Pope issued an apology that the Church didn't do more than it did. Arguably, they might have had more influence than they did.
And you're just using the textbook "I hate Christianity" examples, which get older, more obselete, and less relevant every time they're brought up, somehow. And this time is no exception. More recent centuries have shown that antireligious forces (recently communism, for example) have been far more dangerous. |
| Jomb Posts: 162/448 |
Is it that i get more ridiculous, or that i'm speaking so much truth it just blows your mind and you cant take it 
Christian groups in power have caused bloodbaths throughout history. We have the Spanish Inquisition, The Salem Witch Trials (notably less deaths, but still significant), various examples of native peoples being wiped off the planet for being non-christian, the crusades, etc. Even if there is no one dominant church today, that says nothing about the future, and there were multiple groups in the past and still this went on. The fractured groups could unite or one could start repressing the others. If i'm wrong about the catholic church in WWII, then why on earth did the Pope issue an apology about this a few years ago? |
| Skydude Posts: 1388/2607 |
Alright, in each post you just get more and more ridiculous in what you're saying. You're completely psychotic if you actually think Christian religion being in power would cause bloodbaths (particularly since there isn't really a one dominant church that could do that).
And no, actually, you're completely wrong about the Catholic church in world war II. That was one of Mussolini's biggest problems, was that the Pope wouldn't side with him. He actually respected the Church and didn't go and burn down the Vatican. If anything, the Church provided a huge moderating influence in Italy in World War II. And that more than anything shows that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about and you're just ranting in your antireligious ways completely mindlessly. |
| Jomb Posts: 161/448 |
What i'm saying is just because Christianity in particular is rather settled down now, does'nt mean it cant eventually return to the way it was (very bloody), and when the church is in control of everything and the people are taught to blindly believe what the church tells them, it opens the doors to these sorts of things further down the road, which has happened repeatedly throughout history. When the church is kept out of political power, the likelyhood of such things happening goes down significantly... And no, just because there are other non-religious ways to have a genocide does not invalidate my point in the slightest, that would be like saying because people can die in tornados then hurricanes never cause deaths. The Nazis are not a great example of a non-religious group either, the information i have says they strongly believed god was on their side, in fact the neo-nazi groups of today are even highly religious and represent the extreme of the right-wing. The Catholic church sided with the Axis in WWII, no? |
| Skydude Posts: 1380/2607 |
Now I think you're really going overboard with blaming religion there. Particularly with your complete disregard of my arguments, which is really ridiculous. You're blaming the Pope rather than David Koresh, basically. It's bad people who are to blame, not religion. As for religion as the reason, well, the Nazis and the communists proved that you don't need religion to incite massive genocide. So that further shows that it's not religion that's the cause. |
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