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| User | Post |
| Dragonsbrethren Posts: 196/442 |
Exactly, BMF's palette matches pretty closely to the NTSC filter which mimics the color of my TV. Therefore, it is the "perfect" color for use in my hacks, because that's what they will look like playing on the real thing. |
| Dr. Mario Posts: 67/195 |
Well I think his point was more about the fact that one palette looks right as opposed to being right. True, it's a flawed system, but I don't think that's what he meant when he used words like "perfect" and "right." I'm pretty sure that he was using those in the terms of how they look. |
| Disch Posts: 88/202 |
Well my beef wasn't really with your terminology... so much as it was with how you called so-and-so palette "perfect". You basically admitted that Fx3's looked better, but then turned around and said BMF's was better because it "is the closest to the real thing" -- or because Fx3's just wasn't "right". When what's "right" is not using a palette at all.
I'm not saying you shouldn't like BMF's more. I'm not saying you shouldn't like Fx3's more. I'm saying you shouldn't be pitching X palette as being more precise, more accurate, more "perfect", or more "right" -- as the very idea of using an RGB palette is fundamentally flawed at it's root, so they're all going to be not "right". |
| Dragonsbrethren Posts: 195/442 |
Okay, so what term should I be using? Palette was the best term I could think of for the color output of the NES. |
| Disch Posts: 87/202 |
Gah... this is SUCH a pet peeve of mine.
Originally posted by Dragonsbrethren THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PERFECT NES PALETTE BECAUSE THE NES DOES NOT USE A PALETTE!!!!!!!! GRAAAAHHH!!!! BMF's palette is no more accurate than any other palette in existence. Does it look nice? Sure. Does that mean it's more accurate? No. All palettes are based on the color output of the NES... I mean duh, what else are you going to base it on?
From what I understand of it, the NTSC filter emulates the video signal created by the NES (or rather, how that signal is rendered by a TV). But the filter is not a palette. Nor does it use a palette.
More like... "the NES palette doesn't exist" If you're speaking in terms of accurately portraying the NES image... the very idea behind a palette is fundamentally flawed from the get-go, considering that a color (say $00, which is normally grey) will look different in different situations. An RGB lookup palette is a nice and easy way to emulate the game, but it fixes each 'color' to a fixed on-screen color. Which is not really the behavior exhibited by the NES. The colors tend to "bend" more depending on the pixels around them. |
| Dragonsbrethren Posts: 193/442 |
BMF's palette is based off the actual color output of the NES and the NTSC filter emulates the way those colors are created, so those are the two "perfect" palettes. Remember that on a TV you can control brightness, contrast, and color, three aspects that might make your picture look entirely different than mine (You can also do this in Nestopia). Capcom probably had the same problem with Rockman Complete Works, the NES palette doesn't have RGB values, so they whipped up a palette they were happy with, I agree that it does look a lot better, it's just not "right." I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. |
| NetSplit Posts: 85/144 |
I actually think Fx3's palette looks better than any other I've tried. BMF's seems off to me. I also think that the method that Fx3 used to make his palette is fairly reliable, since it's based on the colors used in Rockman Complete Works. Granted, that's not guarenteed to be perfect, but I still think the palette looks good, myself. *shrugs* |
| Deleted User Posts: 58/-7750 |
You ought to host that on your site dragons brethren. Perhaps people will wanna throw up some custom pal's for various games. If anything put up that one pallette, since it can be an important tool for those who wanna make their roms look good on tv. |
| Dragonsbrethren Posts: 192/442 |
That palette is way to bright, BMF's newest one is the closest to the real thing I've seen (Nestopia with the NTSC filter shows the colors correctly as well)
Also, no matter how many shades of black you see, only use 0F, that's what Nintendo suggested and that's what all licensed games use. Custom palettes are also bad, if NES flashcart technology ever becomes affordable a lot of people will be disappointed when your hack looks terrible on their console. They also won't work with Nestopia or any future emulator that has an NTSC filter. |
| NetSplit Posts: 84/144 |
Er, well, I think it'd be better to just point you to something that *shows* the colors instead of describing them. 
Vagla's Art of ROM Hacking has a table that shows the NES colors and their hex values in the palette editing section. Furthermore, that same section also explains how to edit palettes and should be of great help to you.  Just remember that the document is a little outdated and that you should use some variation of FCEUXD instead of NESticle, since FCEUXD does everything NESticle does and more. Never use NESticle. Ever.
Regarding your most recent question, if there's no editor that can change the palette, then you have to do it in a hex editor. There's not really any alternative. But don't worry, since it's usually very easy to do. Good luck, and if you have questions, just ask! |
| Deleted User Posts: 26/-7750 |
Thanks Bit-Blade! I'll try to get the hang of it. I have another question (I know this is off topic.) I know there are programs that changes Mario colors (I'm NOT asking for a program.) but for Luigi, would I need to use the hex editor to change his? |
| Bit-Blade Posts: 24/35 |
No such thing, man. At least, not how you say it. The only thing hex has to be with palettes is in reference to the palette table, having a range of 00-3F. Furthremore, that palette table is organized in a very logical way. The first digit will always refer to the brightness or darkness of a color, with 0X being the darkest, and 3X being the lightest.
00 01 02 03 10 11 12 20 21 30 (where x= variable of light/dark value) X0 is gray/white color range X1 a mix of gray and blue X2 Blue X3 Purple/Blue X4 Purple X5 Purple/Red X6 Red X7 Red/Yellow X8 Yellow X9 Yellow/Green XA Green XB Green/Blue XC Turquoise 0F Black Now, as for hex itself, it's easy once you get the hang of it. Hex is a base 16 numbering system that uses letters in the alphabet when the numbers start to run out. Hacking wise, while 0F is 15, 00 is counted as 1, so it really is being used as 16. A=10 B=11 C=12 D=13 E=14 F=15 10=16 1A=26 1F=31 The trick is, for every tens place you see in a hex number, you multiply by 16 that many times, then you only need to add whatever other number is in the ones place. Take a number like 5B? 5(16)+11=91. Once you get used to it it's not so bad |
| Deleted User Posts: 25/-7750 |
Could anybody tell me the codes for changing the colors of characters. Do each character have a hex codes? I have never used a hex editor so I don't really understand what to do. I've got FCEUxd, I know it has a built in hex editor, but I just don't understand how to use it. |
