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| User | Post |
| Skydude Posts: 703/2607 |
Well, in a number of cases, it would be more efficient for other countries to grow the crops, and pay the farmers to train them in other industries, and get them to do something else with their time. That's a rather simple part of textbook economics. But of course, the farmers don't WANT that. And they're the best-mobilized lobby in most countries. |
| mattp Posts: 21/174 |
Because low prices mean no profit, mean bankrupt farmers? It's stupid protectionism. There should only be so many farmers as needed so we don't need to destroy food.
Not to mention monstrously crippling taxes and bloated governments. I'll pass. |
| Sinfjotle Posts: 509/1697 |
It can. If there is no reason to fight, people won't fight.
Sure there will be government curruption, surpression, and a mulitude of other thing, but this isn't about that. What can cause problems is when people are losing their families to starvation and sickness and the population become restless. Places like the poor regions of Africa where people are dieing because of bad conditions, some money goes a long way. Things that we (America, I'm not sure much about the UN.) do are stupid when it comes to this, when we try and use our military to make conditions better. |
| Ziff Posts: 715/1800 |
Pardon?
I find it quite odd that you assume that. I mean, Yugoslavia was a fairly well-to-do country and peace corps are still there. Liberia, too, was the gem of Africa...now look at Ivory Coast. But pulling a poor country from poverty doesn't preclude a gigantic civil war, or anything. |
| Sinfjotle Posts: 504/1697 |
Originally posted by Plus Sign Abomination Yes, but that isn't really that expensive compared to how much the military would spend keeping the peace because of it. |
| Wurl Posts: 593/842 |
Ach, here's the link I intended to place above: http://www.lightparty.com/Health/GotMilk.html The above link is intersting mainly because it contrasts the FDA and its Canadian equal's findings. It seems I had confused links while wading through material on the subject.
Just for fun, here are two others: http://www.monsanto.com/monsanto/layout/VSearchResults.asp?queryText=Jane+Akre http://www.monsanto.com/monsanto/layout/VSearchResults.asp?queryText=Steve+Wilson The unemployment rate in the U.S. is higher than some and lower than others. However, the povery rate in the U.S. is much higher than in many other nations. Also it should be considered that many of America's poor are working, yet can't meet the average living standards of fellow citizens. |
| Skydude Posts: 458/2607 |
Um, Wurl, that's the same link as was in the wikipedia, which as I said, is a website maintained by someone who's best friends with the folks involved.
Also, in other industrialized nations, some people have it better than in the US, certainly, but one thing the US has is that there are a lot fewer unemployed and the like than in other nations. The poor are worse off than some other industrialized nations, but there are a lot fewer of them. As such, it is arguable who has a worse situation. |
| Wurl Posts: 592/842 |
Yes, but you forget that in other industrialized nations people in general have it better than the U.S.: Working welfare, civil health care, ect.
Also, here is a more "viable" resource, Skydude: http://www.foxbghsuit.com/ I, however, think that the previous link was credible enough. Just because they are a journalist orginization does not mean that they will protect any BS a reporter throws out there. Also, to my (limited) knowledge of the orginization, tabliods and the like are not covered. |
| Skydude Posts: 443/2607 |
That kind of thing really puts a bit of a cap on the guilt one can feel when one's mother tells you to eat those vegetables because kids in Africa are starving 
Really, I don't think the infrastructure investment is necessarily too much of an expenditure to be unfeasible. I think the money is there, not just in general but even in relief efforts. One of the issues is that countries have a domestic-first policy in general. Poor people in the US are, for the most part, a LOT better off than most of the population of a lot of these other countries, but we tend to them first because, well, they're part of us. From an efficiency standpoint, it might be better to help the other countries as well. What should we do? I don't know. |
| Ziff Posts: 712/1800 |
Yeah, but you guys have to take into account that the hunger problem isn't just because food is difficult to grow, it's hard to distribute. You can't just airdrop seeds onto a field and expect people to know what to do. They'll need equipment and training. Infrastructure within these areas is VERY important so as to provide education and allow for distribution of surplus foods...as well as protect the farmers from potential hazards.
If all it took was to give someone some wheat with a chunk of dog DNA in it to fix all of Africa's hunger we'd have done it by now. |
| Sinfjotle Posts: 501/1697 |
Short answer: Yes, in fact it will.
Long answer: Well, there is one guy in particular that believed that it will. Norman Borlaug, if you've ever heard of him. He altered plants to grow in different places and give more yield. That's all it will take too. You don't need to super alter them, just make it so more will grow and they'll grow in a different place. Then every country could have their own farms and there would be no need for an infrastructure like Ziff brings up. If it could happen and if it will happen are different though. Companies might not like it happening, since it will drastically lower the cost of food. |
| Rom Manic Posts: 73/557 |
I think genetically modified plants are unhealthy. Most real food I eat comes from my garden in my front yard, like Tomatoes and Cucumbers and onions and radishes and stuff like that, mostly vegetables.
There really is no reason to genetically modify plants. They're perfect the way they are. They might not grow fast enough, but having enough to go around is what we folks around here call "Using your brain"  |
| Skydude Posts: 436/2607 |
Check your sources for bias. I went to that Wikipedia article, and looked at the link they reference (you produced it there, though without the link, it's the "[4]" at the end there). It's a website run by the self-proclaimed best friend of the reporters, hardly an unbiased source.
Also, you were mistaken in saying it was recent; the case is apparently ongoing (they can take a while) but the report was in 1997. Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that with the sources cited and the others I've found looking at this, we're hardly seeing the unbiased scandal. Especially since you seem to gloss over the FDA's role in all of this, which is without a doubt the most crucial. |
| Wurl Posts: 589/842 |
I could've swore that I typed Monsanto.
I stole this from Wikipedia: In 1997, Fox News reportedly bowed to pressure from Monsanto to suppress an investigative report on the health risks associated with Monsanto's bovine growth hormone product, Posilac. Posilac, a synthetic drug used to increase milk production in cows, is banned in most first-world countries, with the exception of the United States, where it can be found in much of the milk supply. Fox pressured its reporters, Steve Wilson and Jane Akre, to alter their report, despite evidence that Monsanto had lied about the risks of contaminated milk and infected cattle. The reporters refused to comply, and were eventually fired. Wilson and Akre then sued Fox News in Florida state court, claiming they could not be fired for refusing to do something that they believed to be illegal. In 2000, a Florida jury found in favor of the reporters, however this decision was overturned in 2003 by an appeals court, on a technicality in the interpretation of the whistleblower's statute under which the original case had been filed. The reporters' struggle with Fox News is ongoing. The findings in their original report were never directly challenged. [4] I believe the anti-Food Disparagement groups have more in-depth links, essays, ect. |
| Skydude Posts: 428/2607 |
I think it's rather important to cite sources on a claim as large as the one you're making. I attempted some research (For one, you missed a letter, it's Monsanto) and the only thing I could find on this story was on an extremely biased blog. Which isn't to say that it's necessarily false, since those can definitely do some good independent reporting, but it is to say that it's something of an iffy source on its own. I'd like to learn more about this. |
| Wurl Posts: 588/842 |
No, both reporters were bribed. They were clever enough to ask for checks, but then declined later which gave them highly incriminating evidence. |
| Skydude Posts: 420/2607 |
Well, one thing about that Wurl is that I'm pretty sure you injected some of your own views into the events and transformed them into a bit more insidious than they actually were in order to make a point. While what happened sucked, there's a good chance that there wasn't bribery and the like involved and that in fact there was some bad sensationalist reporting due in part to personal desires for fame...as for bribery, I'm wondering if you have documentation or if that's just speculation. I'm not saying you're wrong, because I'm not familiar with the case enough to say so, but that's a pretty strong statement if you don't have some evidence. |
| Wurl Posts: 586/842 |
Yup, that's capitalism for you. |
| Doppelganger Posts: 167/300 |
Originally posted by Wurl What in the hell? Why do people do things like this when it so morally wrong? That's abyssmally retarded beyond the normal greed level, if they still go ahead and do this. I still don't get why people supposedly tell farmers not to grow crops just to drive prices up. This kind of thing makes my head spin. |
| Skydude Posts: 414/2607 |
Basically, it comes out to farm subsidies, farmers being paid not to grow crops to keep food prices up...helps the farmers, but not so good for everyone else. Infrastructure is something of a problem as well...it's rather difficult to get corn from Iowa to Ethiopia. |
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