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| 0 users currently in World Affairs/Debate. |
| User | Post |
| Arwon Posts: 106/631 |
Or Rabbi Meir Kahane and the Kach Party. |
| Sin Dogan Posts: 272/861 |
Yes, and it's kind of similar here, too. Jordan is not Palestine. And I'm pretty damn sure King Abdullah wouldn't dare to do something like that. The only people that would try to destroy such a holy site or others are terrorists. |
| Imajin Posts: 85/273 |
Originally posted by Jin Dogan Groups within Israel and the Jordanian Government are different things, however... There are groups within the USA that have advocated the destruction of Mecca, but that doesn't mean the US has any plans to destroy the city. (because blowing up a major city in one of our closer allies is just stupid policy, even ignoring the religous aspect) |
| Sin Dogan Posts: 257/861 |
Originally posted by Imajin That's not completely true. Israel may not have openly wanted destruction of Al Aqsa, but there have been Jewish groups that wanted to destroy Al Aqsa for quite some time. Needless to say, destruction solves nothing. |
| Wurl Posts: 345/842 |
Plus Israel is rarely condemned by the whole world. |
| Ziff Posts: 527/1800 |
Or the Israelis open up, and then open fire.
It goes both ways in this conflict. |
| Imajin Posts: 79/273 |
A one-state solution will not work. Palestinian demographics are such that the Palestinians will outnumber the Jewish population soon enough, and the Jews want their own state anyway.
As for human rights violations, what about Jordan, which had annexed and granted citizenship to the West Bank Palestinians, but now does nothing as they languish in camps? What about the other Arab states, that have refused to give full citizenship to the Palestinians because they want to continue the Arab-Israeli conflict to prevent their citizens from rising against the corrupt rulers? But we can talk about past atrocities as much as we want- but what we have to deal with are the facts on the ground, now. In my opinion, the current peace process is a failure. Essentially it seems to go like this: 1) Israel opens up to the Palestinians; 2) Palestinians and Israelis make deal; 3) Suicide Bombers continue to kill Israeli civilians; 4) Israel takes action against terrorism and gets condemned by the world. Look at the recent "truce", where Palestinian groups attacked Israelis but news organizations only mention the truce being in danger when Israel decides to defend itself. The best we can hope for is a Gaza Strip + Most of the West Bank Palestinian state. East Jeruslaem will likely not be a part of it, thankfully the Israelis have been good about allowing Muslims to rule over their holy sites (did not Jordan, during it's rule of the city, set up a military base with deconstruction equipment near the Wailing Wall? The threat there was clear, but Israel has done nothing of the sort near Al-Aqsa). |
| Wurl Posts: 302/842 |
Originally posted by Thayer To be fair, I'm semi-drunk most of the time. |
| Deleted User Posts: 278/-7750 |
While it's nice that you're so interested in their affairs, perhaps you should actually start spelling it right *cough* palestinians *cough* |
| Ziff Posts: 512/1800 |
Vulkar, what the HELL are you talking about? Please explain, in clarity rather than a cryptic cypher. |
| Vulkar Posts: 16/22 |
Originally posted by Jin Dogan Ermm...you misunderstood something somewhere around here. If the indians went through the same change is whats being discussed. Not what actually happened. Also, by now then for them its really that they had relatives that fought each other, as they have entered out society, and out blood. And I'll reply to your more recent points if you explain why it is that whenever peace is about to be reached(no more problems, ordinary life again), then palestine attacks. Actually, I sort of just did...but oh well. |
| Wurl Posts: 276/842 |
It's not just land; The Israeli army keeps Palastinians from being able to function in day to day life with seizures, walls, ect. The best comparision I ever heard for it was this: It's like a house; The Palastinians control most of the rooms, but Israel controls some rooms, but also all the hallways. |
| Sin Dogan Posts: 237/861 |
Originally posted by Vulkar That is the most twisted logic I have ever heard. It wasn't just land. Many Native Americans were raped, tortured, killed, etc. Palestinians want land only because they want someplace to live. They don't want to take over it as much as the Israelis want to keep it. They just want to live there. Many have been displaced, lost jobs, families, everything. |
| Jomb Posts: 63/448 |
Vulkar - true, American Indians are no longer numerous enough to need all this land, but i was only using that as a way to help people maybe understand how Palestinians must feel, and why they'd be pissed off. You are very wrong about Cherokee and Catawba being the only major tribes to live in what is now the US though. The land used to be filled with tribes everywhere in every state. Just in the area i grew up in, there was once great tribes such as the Delaware and the Seneca, along with hundreds of smaller tribes. I took an entire course in college just about the tribes that used to live in the area. |
| Vulkar Posts: 14/22 |
@Jomb: The Indians don't need that much land. The Israelites did. Actually, the indians are mostly americans, there are no pure indians, and most americans have some indians blood in them. Also, its more likely that South America would be chosen. Cherokee and Catawba are the only major indian tribes that lived in the US.
Now, they should be separate, simply because of prejudice. However, I agree. There should be peace. But these palestinians have always attacked whenever they have come close to peace. Oh, and Admittedly, Israel is partly guilty, but sometimes its neccesary for intimidation. |
| Ziff Posts: 508/1800 |
Just because your holy land lies there does not mean that you have a right to rule that area.
I, however, do support the right of the Israeli state to exist. I do not, however, think that they should take violent measures and I honestly believe that there can be a peaceful two state solution. |
| Snow Tomato Posts: 234/798 |
The problem is, their holy land is in the exact same place.
I don't see how they can't just share the land though. Isreali's can live there, as well as Palestinians and it can be called Pisreal or something. However, now there's been too much blood spilled between the two to ever have some sort of normal situation over there. The scars will always be there. I can see how both Isreal and Palestine are at odds with one another. It's a terrible situation and there are no easy answers. It's strange how a Holy Land could turn into a place of such death and destruction. It just tells you something. Maybe it's not about religion.. it's probably just about power. |
| Jomb Posts: 60/448 |
Americans, just imagine if there was a WW3, and American Indians were being persecuted in it. After the war, the world decided that the American Indians deserved to have their land back, so they took your home and gave it to an American Indian family and made you go live somewhere on the worst possible land that no one else wanted. Would that piss you off, or would you just go along with losing everything you own over events that happened long before you were born? I imagine thats about how Palestinians must feel. I'd be extremely pissed off if i were in their shoes to. But now Israel has been there a long time, so no one can really win in that situation. It sucks. |
| Sin Dogan Posts: 235/861 |
Israelis can be no better than Palestinian terrorists. Some of the more recent suicide bombers were Israeli soldiers. They have bulldozed houses with women and children living in them, have run over children with tanks, opened fire on whole cities. There's no real excuse for any of that. The idea of Jews belonging to the land is ridiculous when you look at the Israeli population which is pretty diverse. I don't support either side in complete takeover, but I don't certainly don't agree with the large amount of support Israel is given. |
| Wurl Posts: 273/842 |
Originally posted by p4ch3c0 Iarael has repeatedly broken border agreements against international law. I'll fininsh my first post once I have time. |
| This is a long thread. Click here to view it. | |
