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| 0 users currently in ROM Hacking. |
| User | Post |
| Sukasa Posts: 567/2068 |
I read your post Q, I think you summed it up quite well.
By that definition though, I still can't decide what the hell I am, whiny or some elite dude. Probably neither- I mainly use LM, and my forays with a hex editor were mainly for small hacks... so far. |
| QBRADQ Posts: 9/26 |
Yea, so pansy was the wrong word. Basicaly I was trying to say that by using an editor, a person is mearly using the knowlage of the rom that someone else has packaged into a nice GUI. That person is not, however, learning anything about the underlining process.
Someone who gains the knowlage required to actualy do these things is doing something more significat. However, unless that person shares said knowlage with the community, they contribute nothing, and are themselves insignificat. Finaly, just because you change a ROM with a hex editor doesn't mean your changes are any good. And on the other side of that coin, just because you used a game editor and are ignorate on the underlying process, doesn't mean your work is bad. Really what I was getting at with that whole long post was that the elite never say they are, and that most of the elitists are little whiny bitches. The ignorant may contribute to the masses, and thier work may well be enjoyable. The fact that they are ignorant does not detract from thier work. However, the truly elite contribute to not only the masses, but to the ignorant as well, by making thier work posible. Anyway, I don't really care what you call it. Modifing any software through any means that was never intended to be altered by a third party is hacking I suppose. I just think modding is a more fair term to use for those who use pre-made applications alone to change the game (more fair to both the person who made the application, and to the person doing the modding). So, like I said before, I may be hacking SMB1 at the moment, but I'm no hacker. Not only am I not on par with those origional Hackers in terms of skill or understanding, I also have no desire to attract that kind of attention to myself. I get credit for my work, but it comes in the form of my friends and family enjoying my efforts, not from posturing to a bunch of people online. That being said, I like you guys and appreciate your comments, suggestions, and help. QBRADQ |
| HyperHacker Posts: 878/5072 |
But then how do we know ROM refers to a game ROM dump and not some other nonvolatile storage? Or maybe the Royal Ontario Museum? 
Originally posted by QBRADQThat's it. We'll call it ROM-Fucking-With.  |
| Imajin Posts: 77/273 |
[QUOTE]Umm, OK, so I am bored. Here's the only opinion I have on the subject: Using SMB Utility to change the levels of SMB1 (no matter what you do with it, as long as you only use SMB Utility) you're a modder. That's right, just like those guys that make the AWP in Counter Strike do even more damage, or make a Quake 3 MOD where every hit is an insta-gib. You are a pansy in the overall scheme, though we may enjoy you're work. [/QUOTE]
More elitism, I see. Why should someone who just wants to make new SMB1 levels need to learn to use a hex editor and all that simply to avoid being a "pansy" in the eyes of people like you? "Only using an editor" is not equal to "idiot". [QUOTE]It's a matter of context. If you say "game modding" it should be fairly obvious. [/QUOTE] And if you say ROM Hacking, it should be fairly obvious...  |
| QBRADQ Posts: 6/26 |
All very relevant questions, not just to the ROM hacking / modding / f'ing-with community, but to the IT community as a whole. For instance, a friend of mine describes himself as a hacker, yet he has never used a hex editor (calls it archaic (however you spell that fancy word for old and outdated)), programs in Visual Basic (of all disgusting things, if you can even call that programming (I call it scripting)), and struggles with C++ (like it's that hard).
Even more wide-spread is the usage of deriviatve forms of the word, such as hacking. As in "He's really hacking away at that router", or "I hacked my Counter Strike so that all my enimies are birght red (When I did that, I called it cheating  )".
Am I a hacker because I reverse-engineer NES ROM dumps (for the past week I might add, I'm new to this)? Am I a hacker because I use nested parenthasise in forum posts? Am I a hacker because I misspell every other word, have issues with my mother, drink a butt-load of Dr. Pepper, and can quote Star Trek: The Next Generation episode numbers and titles from memory? Or am I not a hacker because I keep long-lasting and loving social relationships? In 1981, a Hacker was a distinguished human-being, one worth capitolizing his referance title even. In 1981, a Hacker was that guy that was always poking around in your companies main-frame, talking with his (few) friends about 0E something-or-another, and toggleing-in opperatinoal base-systems (now called Opperating Systems) at the control console from memory. Then, in the mid-80's, a Hacker became that guy on the evening news that got busted stealing millions of dollars from a bank and going to jail for a long time. Then, even stranger, in the early 90's a hacker (notice the lack of capitolization) became that guy on the evening news who crashed a bunch of computer systems. Then in the mid-90's, the entire paradigm was shiffted, the box became many, and the suits prevailed (I'm making fun of managment terms by the way, f'ing little... yea, it's a public forum, so...). (h)ackers became crackers, crackers became white males, people that new what the hell was going became "IT Professionals", and hackers were again elite people, but now they wore funny hats like Carmen San Deago. Ahh, the late 90's. .COM stocks crashed like the Hindenburg, more CEOs committed suicide than Nazi officers durring the Nuriburge trials, and tech intersets when into a recesion unheard of since "The Grapes of Wrath". Crackers became people that made pirate copies of video games, white males were once again refered to as honkies, twelve-year-olds t@!k1nG l!3k tH!3 asking you're ASL in a Yahoo chat room became 1337 hackers (who never once attended a 2600 meeting, like that makes a differance anyway), and people that knew what the hell was going on became "Computer Terroists". Now, a Hacker is a poser, someone trying to get attention by calling himself a criminal. There are still those from the old-school that admit to being a hacker, but rarely will they boast of this fact in public. People that know what the hell is going on are call "People that know what the hell is going on", people that can barley alter the IP tables on a Windows server are called "Network Administrators", people that use Linux are call "That odd kid in the back", and anyone that can alter a program with nothing but a hex editor are called "smart". So, am I a hacker? HELL NO! Am I a programmer? No. I'm just a guy, a 22-year-old kid trying to make a living. I administer Windows servers, and they call me a "Network Technician". I alter NES programs with a debuger and a hex editor, and I'm call a "Nerd". I write C++ programs on the Windows platform, and people have the audacity to call me a "Programmer" or "Coder". I'm just a lucky guy. I know who I am, what I do, and where I stand. I am Q damn it! And not that shit from Star Trek! I administer Windows for a living (like that's hard). I review hex dumps and play NES games and Call of Duty 2 for entertainment. And finaly, when I hack into SMB1 and show my loving girl friend how to alter a level's data, I'm "The greatest geek-man on Earth" I am Brad. I do stuff, and this stuff might envolve hacking. But I am not a hacker, I am Brad, or Q if you don't know me in real life. Umm, OK, so I am bored. Here's the only opinion I have on the subject: Using SMB Utility to change the levels of SMB1 (no matter what you do with it, as long as you only use SMB Utility) you're a modder. That's right, just like those guys that make the AWP in Counter Strike do even more damage, or make a Quake 3 MOD where every hit is an insta-gib. You are a pansy in the overall scheme, though we may enjoy you're work. Those that are elite, and deserve to be called a hacker, are either so odvious to "Those that know what the hell is going on" that they need no title, or secretive to the point that you'd never know who they are. Then again, that's just my two coins. QBRADQ |
| Apophis Posts: 233/734 |
I do now... stupid laptop. |
| HyperHacker Posts: 869/5072 |
It's a matter of context. If you say "game modding" it should be fairly obvious.
Apofisu: Make frequent backups and buy better hard drives. |
| Heian-794 Posts: 24/160 |
People won't get "modding" (=modification, of games) confused with "modding" (=moderation, of posts); they're two different words and apply to two different things. |
| Apophis Posts: 231/734 |
Originally posted by HyperHacker Unless you're me. My hard drives tend to die before I can release my work |
| HyperHacker Posts: 843/5072 |
There's no need for a different word for those who do more advanced hacking. If you're that great, people will know by your name alone.
Also, I do sometimes call it modding when talking to people who I know will assume hacking refers to breaking into someone's computer and blowing it up.  |
| Guy Perfect Posts: 82/451 |
Reviewing the posts in this thread, I have made a few observations...
First, I never once suggested that the community change its convention and start differentiating between "cracking" and "modding" when it comes to the usage of the word "to hack." As my first post says, I was simply inquiring about the real meat and potatoes of what it means "to hack" and whether or not it was truely descriptive of modding. I'm certainly not trying to say "Hey, I have an opinion! Let's do/not call modding 'hacking'!" Specific usage of terminology is of little consenquence to me. If words have useful functionality in a community, then by all means go for it. So long as it's not something blatantly problematic like calling green red or right wrong. All that matters is that there is a distinction in usage where we can "hack a game" or "make a hack," enabling us to discern the particular activity being described. I have also noticed that comments about attitude and elitism certainly appear to be relevant just by reading the posts in this thread. Why is there so much hostility? Is the definition of a word so important that it requires the most agressive of defensive remarks? Are people such that they either want modders to be called hackers for the sake of elitism, or for modders not to be called hackers for the same reason? Such things are predominantly selfish, and I see no need for it. If there's enough of an offense to pit members of a community against one another for something as petty as "You fiend! You have misused a word!" then my only response is that of pity. They say that those with an inclination to technology choose to work with machines because they have no people skills. If usage of a word is too much for someone to handle, then this forum is not the place for him to be. |
| NEONswift Posts: 40/150 |
My previous comments on changing the name were just light hearted remarks that in theory would most likely never work and to be honest doesnt really matter. What matters is that we get along.
What we are is a COMMUNITY. Now the best communties work when people feel comfortable being who they are and doing what they do. Moaning about what skills you have over others or what you lack never go down well and in the end just bring about feelings of anger or pain. A community works because it has members of all talents and all backgrounds and each and everyone one of them adds to the community. If at the very least all they do is download and play the hacks we make (or try to  ) then they are still imo adding to that community.
You think Nintendo looks down on the people who buy there games or Miyamoto is actually an elitist git who hates all those who are below him? Hell no he respects and appreciates all that they add, as little as that may be. |
| Apophis Posts: 230/734 |
Originally posted by ImajinOriginally posted by Apofisu No. I just tend to have my own rom hacking. I define rom hacking as basically hacking something to pieces (breaking it down into its most basic elements) and then working from that. Originally, this is what rom hackers all did. Now we have all these editors where the first half of that process is done for you. I've never liked change, so I can't bring myself to alter my definition to better fit the current state of the community. Not that editors are a bad thing. |
| Yoronosuku Posts: 182/1239 |
There is way too much eliteism that goes on. This community is here to help people, not act like you are better than them. If you only make hacks just to boost your ego and status, then I feel sorry for you. You missed the whole point--hacking (I used the word) should be fun  |
| Sukasa Posts: 553/2068 |
So, would that make someone who uses a hex editor as well, to add in new code by hand or document existing code, is a hacker considering that they use.. say.. Lemetaal or LM or whatever? |
| Imajin Posts: 76/273 |
Originally posted by Apofisu Why, because you like feeling special? |
| NetSplit Posts: 65/144 |
Where did I say you can't judge people's work? Unless I made a mistake somewhere that I can't locate (in which case, please point it out), I argued against judging PEOPLE, not their work, because your skills are so much better than their own. I'm all for judging people's work; I like to help people out, for example, by playing through their hacks and telling them, primarily, what I think really needs to change, as well as the things that must not change because they're so good. I'm not for judging people just because someone thinks he's so much better than everyone else that he can bash the people for the reason of the work they put out not being as good as his own. Apparently this issue was simply a misunderstanding of one another's posts.
Apofisu: Well okay, that's a bit better, but I still don't see what the point is (and, based on the criteria you've established for one who does 'real work,' I do real work, too), nor why you would really want this unless you were simply desiring to be in a better category than 'the rest' of the people here. It's all still hacking, though. Some do it with tools and some do not. I don't see the necessity for a new category of ROM hackers. Hell, editors are commonly a stepping stone when hacking, and are still used even by people who are better, though they're not as relied upon. But again, apparently it was another misunderstanding; I apologize for that, but it really did seem to me based on your earlier posts that you were saying something different. *shrugs* |
| Rom Manic Posts: 40/557 |
Originally posted by NetSplit Man, it's fuckin comfy up here. So allow me to elate you on what I meant by my VERY sarcastic post. You suggest there are better ROM hackers out there. I agree. They can pull of some crazy shit where some can't. I agree. But because of this, they alone have the right to judge anothers work? Not bloody likely. I'm just a firm believer in equality. Anyone can tell me that my work is going nowhere and it doesn't bother me. Why should it? But when people fight over who should be able to judge, thats just morally wrong for me. So forgive me for being an asshole. I'm sorry. |
| Apophis Posts: 229/734 |
Let me clarify. I didn't mean to say I'm better than anyone. I just feel there should be a distinction between 'rom hackers' and 'rom editors', with the latter term referring to people whose work is limited to the use of game-specific editing software. (Not counting blocktool, provided they do the ASM work themselves.) |
| NetSplit Posts: 64/144 |
Assuming that that response is meant to be sarcastic, I'm reminding you that this is a community made for ROM hacking, not for people to say how much better they are than everyone else and how they shouldn't be lumped into the same category called "ROM Hacker" as everyone else. Get off your fucking high horse. Everyone here hacks ROMs. Some do more advanced hacking than the rest. Some are better than other people. Big fucking deal. No amount of work you've done ROM hacking is going to make you anything beside a ROM Hacker, just like the rest of the people in that category who you've been lumped in with. There's no need to treat them as inferior because they're not as good as you are at hacking ROMs.
To sum it up, get off your fucking high horse. Thanks much. |
| This is a long thread. Click here to view it. | |
