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| 0 users currently in World Affairs/Debate. |
| User | Post |
| Rom Manic Posts: 9/557 |
Nobody's watching the watchdog... |
| Imajin Posts: 46/273 |
The Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act, apparently, doesn't say anything about wiretapping American citizens in the USA without a warrant, which is what this act of Bush apparently does.
As far as I know, the law allowed emergency wiretapping without a warrant as long as one was gotten in 78 hours, which doesn't sound unreasonable to me. |
| emcee Posts: 115/867 |
Originally posted by Snow Tomato FISA? That was amended into the USA act, and that eventually into the USA PATRIOT act. But that's the way laws works, the most recent one on the same level (in this case federal) take precedence. A little off topic, but you should try a lighter font color, you have to highlight it to read it. |
| Snow Tomato Posts: 9/798 |
Are you serious?
When someone violates federal law, steps need to be taken. If anyone, not just the presient, does something not clearly defined as their job they get fired. If you're a chemistry teacher.. and you're teaching history.. you're going to be fired. It's a simple concept. But we're talking about the president of the united states. To be a democracy means to follow the beliefs of the people embodied in the laws of the constitution, and all the laws passed by congress. What kind of example is the president of the united states, the figurehead of the free world, setting for everyone else? That you don't have to do your job? That violating federal law is okay? Complete unquestioned obediance to a leader is acceptable? Democracy is supposed to be open to change and to investigation.. it's supposed to be the form of government where people aren't afraid to say "Hey, you're abusing your powers!".. that's the whole basis of the foundation of this country. It's being shattered, and I'm getting very frightened about what the future holds. |
| geeogree Posts: 54/207 |
yeah well, not everyone follows the rules.
I'm sure the FBI, CIA and NSA ask for permission before they do anything. And I'm sure they follow all the rules all the time and never do anything wrong. |
| Snow Tomato Posts: 7/798 |
There was a law previous to the patriot act that states that you can't wire-tap without a mandate from the courts, no matter who you are.
If that is so, many acts justified by the Patriot Act are illegal following previous laws. |
| emcee Posts: 97/867 |
It was a pretty big story a few weeks back, I guess the original poster assumed everyone knew the details.
Google News Search: Domestic Spying This should fill you in on all the details, as well as the latest developments and editorial takes on both sides. |
| Alastor Posts: 1235/8204 |
Yeah, I was going to say that too. Could I get an article link over here? |
| Schweiz oder etwas Posts: 296/2046 |
*raises hand*
Nobody's cited ANYTHING today... |
| geeogree Posts: 52/207 |
fair enough.... I really wasn't sure so I figured it might be possible that that may apply |
| emcee Posts: 94/867 |
Originally posted by geeogree The Patriot Act isn't quite as powerful as its been made out be (there's a fairly unbiased article about it over on Wikipedia), I was going to post more about the limitation of it in the thread I made about renewing it but no one ever replied (actually my last post in that thread was about this topic). The Patriot Act still requires a warrant for wiretap, but in situations where it is considered an emergency, the warrent can be issue after the tap has been done. In this case there were no warrants at all. |
| Koneko Posts: 142/656 |
geeogree is right. Because of the Patriot Act, everything done by any government official is okay as long as it can be connected in whatever convoluted and obtuse way to counterterrorism. Bush could probably sexually abuse the Constitution and get away with it.
And I'm sorry, Comedy Central, for stealing your line. |
| geeogree Posts: 50/207 |
I have a serious question.
What influence does the patriot act have in this situation. Is there any way that that act could have some sort of permission for wire-tapping? |
| emcee Posts: 93/867 |
What gets me about this, is that he had been giving permission to the NSA to do this. They might as well of been asking permission from me, the constitution gives me just as much jurisdiction over this (none).
Then he has the nerve to call those who informed the public criminals. |
| geeogree Posts: 49/207 |
I totally agree. The whole system is open to corruption and abuse. |
| drjayphd Posts: 97/1170 |
Originally posted by geeogree See also: damn near every government. |
| geeogree Posts: 48/207 |
well.... you want to give more power to an organization that barely does anything anymore and itself is corrupt from top to bottom? |
| Ziff Posts: 285/1800 |
Are you really so dense as not to, I don't know, just say what's on your mind?
I know you're going to go "DAMNED LIBERALS WITH THEIR UN". But that is not my answer. I suggest strengthening the ICC, although an organ of the UN, it should have the powers to actually prosecute leaders by utilizing economic methods. This would level the playing field with the corrupt and defunct Security Council. |
| geeogree Posts: 47/207 |
hrm.... so, which international organizations do you have in mind that can do this? |
| Ziff Posts: 283/1800 |
Strengthen the mandate of international institutions to allow them to police the nations of the world so that they don't commit things like...INSTITUTIONALIZED TORTURE! |
| This is a long thread. Click here to view it. | |
