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2 users currently in General Chat:  Dark Vampriel |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - A picture tells a thousand words |
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Apple Kodondo Level: 38 Posts: 573/594 EXP: 350163 For next: 20284 Since: 03-27-04 From: Washington. Since last post: 264 days Last activity: 152 days |
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Boredom struck when I was doing a history paper and to make a semi-long story short. I'm now writing a paper on the discovery of America. Look at that map. It was drawn by Al-Masudi who was a Muslim historian and geographer. Notice the large island off the coast of Africa. That is South America. The map predates both Columbus and Leif Ericson by roughly 100 and 600 years respectfully. Which would put the first dsicovers of America** as Muslims. **Not including those who came via the Bering Landbridge and those with no solid edvidence.  I'm writing a paper on it for my World History class and several of internet sources list several books where they got their sources from and I'm trying to track down said books and read them  |
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Cymoro PATRICK DUFFY WILL LASER YOUR SOUL   Level: 67  Posts: 1556/2216 EXP: 2549743 For next: 43129 Since: 03-15-04 From: Cymoro Gaming Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| There is a chance it is, unless it's Madagascar or Australia (But then, why would it be so close?). Is there any source that mentions that island? I just don't think you'd want to lose a few points by accidentaly calling Madagascar the "new world". And I believe Leif came before Columbus. That may had been a typo on your part. |
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Legault Bot Level: 24  Posts: 41/269 EXP: 78075 For next: 50 Since: 12-24-04 From: Schools out...YES!!! Summer vacation. Since last post: 13 days Last activity: 4 days |
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| No actually that could be South America because of the Pangea Theory. Which states that all continents were once connected. | |||
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Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 239/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
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Originally posted by Anarchy99Yes... many millions of years ago. This map is from around 600-1000 years (just plain old years) ago; and the theory of continental drift / plate tectonics is far more recent than that. |
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Brunken Drawler Tektite Level: 12  Posts: 53/56 EXP: 7539 For next: 382 Since: 12-13-04 Since last post: 277 days Last activity: 203 days |
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Interesting... We finished the "Islam" chapter... I'm guessing your a sophmore (SP?  )? I wish I lived back then... Nothing but Peace and Nature. : drifts off in a dream : |
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The Guru of Furu Ninji Level: 26  Posts: 121/240 EXP: 90642 For next: 11633 Since: 03-18-04 From: Cali Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 7 hours |
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| Yeah, the idea of a pangea is way before the time of humans. If you look at the world, there is virtually no recognizable movement throught human history. Anyways, very interesting, but I'd definately check up on that if you only found it on a website. Don't base your entire report on that one site, make sure you find something that is published on that so that there is some legitimacy to the image. But if it's true, very cool. | |||
MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 1335/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| Well, I don't know much about Arab Geography, but if you want to read the arabic text on the map you have to turn it upside down. The lower island has the words edebii mujoula at the bottom, and irhenii mujoula. (It's really hard to make out the letters, it's only an approximation) I think I'll ask my teacher about this. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 2670/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| That has been a much argued map. As is the map of Antarctica that went missing. The general fringe thought is that the Japanese discovered the new world in and around 600-1100 AD as various islands off the coast of South America have had Japanese pottery on it. | |||
Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 7422/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| Notice that Sweden is an Island on that picture... or is that great britain? Or maybe the left one is GB and right Sweden... I'm more surprised how accurate it is, rather how inaccurate it is. World maps over a such large area so early on. |
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Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143  Posts: 6948/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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| I can see Sweden on that map. Do you see where Italy should be, Kitten Yiffer? Right above there is Sweden and Norway. |
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Ramsus Octoballoon Level: 19 Posts: 13/162 EXP: 34651 For next: 1126 Since: 01-24-05 From: United States Since last post: 39 days Last activity: 71 days |
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| What if it's just Antarctica? I mean, it's right under Africa, so that'd make more sense to me. Pretty amazing map for several hundred years ago though. | |||
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Apple Kodondo Level: 38 Posts: 577/594 EXP: 350163 For next: 20284 Since: 03-27-04 From: Washington. Since last post: 264 days Last activity: 152 days |
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Originally posted by The Guru of Furu The image I found on a website but its also published in a book and I have found a few websites that that draw sources from several books. I'm still trying to track down those books actually. Originally posted by Cymoro Its way to off to be Madagascar or Australia. Besides, Al-Masudi, who made the map, wrote about a Muslim navigator named Khashkhash who sailed into the west Altanic and returned with strange and unknown treasure. I would also think that Madagascar culture wouldn't be strange to them since they did trade with Africans. And the Columbus/Leif thing was a typo. Originally posted by Brunken Drawler Second Year senior. Its nothing to do with an Islam chapter/unit/whatever. I get to choose my own topics for papers. Originally posted by Ziffski Very interesting, I haven't heard about the Japanese theory. I've heard they found a Chinese Junk off the coast of California dating back to the 1000-1100's. Which would be 100-200 years after the Muslims and Japan has way too big of a range to really say they were the first. You could also argue the Egyptians if you wanted to. (Using the whole Cocaine/Nictone found in mummies as well as its being proven that they could of reached America with their seafaring technology). And Pottery was a good. Europeans traded for it. Its not to far fetched to say some European bought old Japanese pottery and crashed off of the coast of South America. Plus theres way more than just pottery suggesting Muslims came to America. Native American clothing, Native American names, Some native American religions. Not to mention the hundreds of stories about Muslims coming to America from 889ad to 1200ad and the amount of detail involved with the tales. Its one thing to say "We left spain, found america, came back" but they don't. Its more of a "So and so, from this city, who lived from this year until this year, left this port in this year, during the reign of so and so (Than give the years of the reign) traveled here than here before going there and they returned on such and such year" thing. The stories are very detailed for being so old. Originally posted by Kitten Yiffer I thought the big island was England the one next to it was Ireland. It also appears they didn't explore higher than Denmark by that time. I was more surpised that it appears it has India, Tde Himilayas (sp?), and part of the far south east on it than the islands off the coast of Europe. |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34  Posts: 276/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| there are a lot of groups of people that have ties to america... the orientals came across, whether by land bridge, or by boat.... the muslims may have known.... there are ties to jews.... the vikings came before columbus.... and probably a half dozen others.... |
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blackhole89 LOLSEALS Moderator of ROM hacking EmuNET IRC network admin Head GM of TwilightRO Level: 47  Posts: 519/971 EXP: 739208 For next: 26995 Since: 03-15-04 From: Dresden/Germany Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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| That map doesn't look as if it were really old... I mean, the precision about the mediterranean area is unrealistically high for the time period it pretends to be from... look at portuguese maps from 6 centuries later and you'll know what I mean. | |||
FreeDOS Lava Lotus Wannabe-Mod :< Level: 59 Posts: 1041/1657 EXP: 1648646 For next: 24482 Since: 03-15-04 From: Seattle Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Doesn't anyone remember from history class that the Vikings traveled to North America (northeastern Canada) in the 11th and 12th centuries? | |||
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69  Posts: 1768/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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| Yup. Vinland. | |||
hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38  Posts: 495/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
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| As long as we're making speculative historical bullshit assertions, I'd like to assert that the Africans discovered America before anyone else, as evidenced by the African statues on Easter Island. Oh, and the Egyptians also had gliders that they flew around on. /bullshit history is fun |
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Apple Kodondo Level: 38 Posts: 580/594 EXP: 350163 For next: 20284 Since: 03-27-04 From: Washington. Since last post: 264 days Last activity: 152 days |
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Originally posted by hhallahh I love closemindedness The Vikings discovered America in the 1000's. It was proven in the 1960's. For 900+ years no one believed they did. It was proven and about 70% of the world still doesn't believe it. Why is it so much bullshit to believe that the Muslims were perhaps here before the Vikings? I just find the it amusing that the story of Columbus has a lot of ties to the Muslim legends... Spain. A country from 710ad until 1492ad was a muslim country. In most legends, muslim navigators left from Palos Spain (so did Columbus). These legends were (and still are) believed by the majority of Muslims. The people of Spain would of grown up hearing tails about it. Spain was the ONLY country willing to fund Columbus. Consequence? Maybe. Ah well, I personally enjoy questioning what I was/am taught in history class and I do happen to believe that America was discovered by Muslims. Which makes me unAmerican and brainedwash by Arabic propaganda (I LOVE ARTICLES BY RIGHTWING AMERICAS! )Side note: I was having fun trying to connect the Egyptians to Mesoamerica last month. Its not totally impossible but I don't believe it. Still was a fun thing to read about |
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MobleSprout Shyguy Level: 17  Posts: 45/91 EXP: 21215 For next: 3528 Since: 03-15-04 From: Philly Since last post: 26 days Last activity: 26 days |
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Originally posted by Apple Recent evidence is coming to light (from rediscovered Chinese charter documents) that instead of every other race in the entire world discovering America first, the Chinese did. I read it in an article pimping the book the historian was reading, and I don't remember all of his supporting evidence, but scholars are tending to turn in that direction now. All means considered, the Chinese mastered boat travel well before any other culture, and given the enormous reach of Chinese-branched cultures in the early couple centuries A.D., it seems entirely likely that the Chinese had stumbled upon the West coast (or what is NOW the West coast, as it could very well have been islandic then) previously to the Muslims, the Africans, the Americans, the Icelandics and the Fraggles. Check out these books for a start into reference: Here And Here There's more scholarly ones out there but I don't feel like looking for them edit: sorry, tablebreaking edit 2: one last edit - i forgot to mention that the chinese were the first to discover North America's USA territory. I'd blanked out on the vikings. But they don't matter. Stupid Swedes. (edited by MobleSprout on 02-04-05 09:42 PM) (edited by MobleSprout on 02-04-05 09:44 PM) (edited by MobleSprout on 02-04-05 09:50 PM) |
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Apple Kodondo Level: 38 Posts: 586/594 EXP: 350163 For next: 20284 Since: 03-27-04 From: Washington. Since last post: 264 days Last activity: 152 days |
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Originally posted by MobleSproutOriginally posted by Apple I've heard about 1421 and seen a few people discuss it on misc message boards but I haven't seen anyone yet (Who wasn't Chinese) say anything good about it except it was interesting. I haven't read it yet so I'll look for it and Fusang when I go to the library next time. |
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