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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - Halfway done (Staff '05 stuff) |
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Jizuko Jiz Is The Magic! This board has run out of mana and can no longer use The Magic Level: 51  Posts: 1020/1191 EXP: 1004683 For next: 9255 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 230 days Last activity: 213 days |
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| *sigh* We count overall activity most, not just "hey, it's a spurr of the moment activity during the last month thingie!" So Yiffy Kitten, your idea is to demote the most active admins and one of the most active fullmods? Colleen is the most active and does tons of staff issues. Anya too, she might not be banning much but she's still involved actively in staff, and so am I, and so is Toxic. You however, is not. Yeah, lately Rydain's been more active than me, by what? 3 posts during the last month? Yet she holds half the posts I have, uh, you were talking about logic? We did not fully demote Rydain due to she being a good asset and when she's active, she's really great. If she gets alot more active and keeps up in this pace, which I hope, because her posts are really nice to read, then what will stop us from promoting her again? knuck, they don't need to spam, definately not, but if they have 11 posts during the last 4 months they can't have been on the board much nor participated in staff issues such as banning, closing and various other things now can they? We checked how much they participated in staff forums before demodding too, of course. Phil is good, he's a good guy and I have no problems with him. I don't think he'll go on a banning spree just like that, but he is kinda emotional, and sometimes he (unrightfully) likes to take the blaim upon himself if some drama stirrs up and has at times just asked if he should be on staff. (That's how I remember it anyway, I'm sure Phil can correct me on that or tell me that i'm entirely wrong), Phil isn't that active either. I'm sure there might be reasons for that, offline stuff, exciting game or whatnot, but just as Rydain, Phil is not entirely demoted, he's still on staff, and kicking, he can still suggest bans, moderate threads, and even post possible ban messages if you miss those so much. And if he turns out to be active again, just as Rydain, he might just get back. MathOnNapkins: Emuz is the co-owner, the only one who can decide about him is Acmlm. And I don't think he wanted to do a decision about that right there and then. But yes, it was mostly about activity. Yiffy Kitten; I agree, I check things alot but I don't post much too, but you however hasn't been a single bit active during four months, that's like, 1/3rd of the lifetime of the new board. And if you're not active you can't participate in staff issues. And I haven't seen you ban or do anything during those past 4 months, and even before that the only time you went active was when you led your moron-slaying crusade, which was off and on a few times. Alot of times you banned people who weren't warned or had a single idea of why they were banned. As for Rydain, as I said to knuck, I have like, more than half of her total posts. and 3 posts on a month difference? Tick tock tick tock. I think I've already made up for that now. As for bass, well, he was neither active in any staff issues or at the board, the only thing he seemingly did was to delete posts when he didn't like the result of a thread and add features that like to benefit him. And preaching about how many people he'd ban if he had free hands, 1/3 of the board or something like that. As for the meeting, excerpts were made from the most active admins, fullmods and locals. The ones most concerned about staff. No regular users were involved. And yes, Acmlm is included. And blades weren't demoted, he was and still is a local mod, maybe you'd have known that if you would have checked the board a tiny bit for the past 4 months  So, no there wasn't any backstab, we even posted a thread in general about this. Everyone knew that things were going to happen and everyone was up for grabs. Junior staff didn't do this, that's wrong. And no, we're not promoting spam in staff, we just want staff to participate in staff issues and atleast have a bit of a solid ground when it comes to posting, It's not that hard to accumulate about 20-30posts per month. And some of that in staff. And for christ sakes, be a bit flexible, this is not the end of the board. Far from it, when this is done we'll (I will) make a thread about moderator guidelines (as suggested by Blades) so everyone follows the same rules, not that one moderator closes a bump of 1week and one only closes if it's older than 3 months or whatnot. Things like that. I'm sure most regular users won't even notice a difference, they can't see who banned someone or who posts in staff anyway |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 7399/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| Besides, we had the staff change thread as topic title in #acmlm. Even people who just visits IRC shouldn't be taken offhand by it. And honestly, if your never use the power you don't need it here. And i'm thankful that no "user4mod" crap happened this time around. (edited by Kitten Yiffer on 01-26-05 04:41 AM) |
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Uncle Elmo Hammer Brother Partly Sweet, Helpful, good at advice and a half decent writer. Also modest. Level: 49 Posts: 856/1062 EXP: 845899 For next: 37984 Since: 03-15-04 From: Prestatyn, Uk Since last post: 23 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I don't see why people are getting upset over this, Ok, so I'm not staff, and the chances of me being promoted are as much as a banana in a blender (hey, crappy analogy, go easy on me, I've just come off shift), and perhaps those who have been demoted may be a bit gutted, but.... let me say one thing no one's actually mentioned. This is a message board. Not the end of the world. When Acmlm puts up "let's live the fun posting experience", I don't think he meant that ironically, you should be enjoying yourselves. With the staff reorganisation, things might run more smoothly, then again they might not and we might need another reshuffle, but why the hell are we bitching about the "why's and wherefores" when in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? Are you going to put on your CV (Moderator of Craziness forum and presided over several gender changes). if you're THAT upset and are taking this so seriously, then mabye you should be thinking if you mature enough to hold a level of responsiblilty in the first place. Look outside of the box. This is a MESSAGE BOARD. Lighten up. I've been hired, fired, and chased away by burning torches from loads of MB's, and I've come to see that being staff is a nice thing, the responsiblility is cool, but somethimes it's just as cool to be a "civvy". I mean you can still make things cool for the other visitors by encouraging debate, being nice to users and being an example to others. This is NOT being that example. Those who have been demoted, well you can still show the forum what you''re made of, after all if it's SO bad being a "normal user", what does that say about the rest of us, those who are not staff? it is THAT bad to be among the unwashed masses? You might argue it's more the principle of how it was done, but sometimes things have to be done that way. You can only please half of the people half of the time. Get over it. It's not the end of the world. Tomorrow is another posting day. Be the best bloody "normal user" you can be, let the staff do their thing, and let's all be shiny happy people holding hands.  |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 7402/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| The biggest mistake some staff does are taking it as a serious job and not a freetime activity. The only thing people loose on a demotion is... power. It's not like people are gonna respect you much less when someone don't have power. And well, if there is going to be new guidelines then normal people should know about it too, especially about stuff like "bumping rules". I do hope it's going into the "warn first" direction and not permaban on first sight. There have been a few questionable bans, especially when a admin takes own intative and bans before even posting anything in the staff forum. Sure there is obvious ban cases but... In a perfect world we would just need one admin. But in reality not everything is in perfect order and not everyone have that much time. (edited by Kitten Yiffer on 01-26-05 05:26 AM) (edited by Kitten Yiffer on 01-26-05 05:29 AM) |
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Lenophis Super Koopa Level: 44  Posts: 337/830 EXP: 584360 For next: 26925 Since: 03-15-04 From: Duluth, MN Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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Originally posted by Jizuko ......................... Last I checked, he was one of the two coders for this board. He was also upholding security so bullshit and hacks of the board don't happen. Guess he was demoted for doing his job. Then again, with what I've seen going on in the last week, I'm not in the least bit surprised. I call this one a bullshit excuse. |
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Valentine Revolution Leever Level: 24  Posts: 195/199 EXP: 68616 For next: 9509 Since: 03-15-04 From: UK Since last post: 103 days Last activity: 59 days |
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| Elmo's right. I've been staff on forums before, and I've seen first-hand how stressed Kasumi gets over you lot sometimes, and you couldn't pay me to be staff of anything online ever again. I know I don't post a lot, but I lurk, and I read everything nearly on this forum, and my personal opinion is that whats done is done, nothing drastic has happened, and you should just stop bitching. | |||
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Jizuko Jiz Is The Magic! This board has run out of mana and can no longer use The Magic Level: 51 Posts: 1030/1191 EXP: 1004683 For next: 9255 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 230 days Last activity: 213 days |
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Originally posted by Kitten YifferWell duh, of course you're gonna hear about it. We just have to decide about the rules first I wish we could brainwash people to do what Elmo said  Oh, and to add a little thing, I never had anything against the people I suggested (except bass, I freely admit that, but it's not the reason for demotion). For example, I am grateful for what Yiffy Kitten has done, he's a good guy, only problem I have with him is the overzealous crusades and such, and Rydain and Phil, but we're just trying a shuffle here, if it doesn't work then so be it. But the main reason on all demotions were inactivity. Keep that in mind. Things taken into consideration was, activity the past few months and participation in staff forums, and at some few cases mainly on locals on inactive forums --how many times they've moderated a thread and not a fullmod/admin, or if the forum really is active enough to need a local mod. There's fullmods for a reason. Believe me, these changes are not set in stone for the remainder of the boards lifetime. Someone might still shine out and get put back. I have no doubt that if Rydain keeps on her activity she can be put back. She is after all the boards resident Oracle as I said to Phil. And that's just an example. So, please chill and wait until it's all finished.Demotion does in no way mean that we piss on you, or that we respect you less. |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43  Posts: 410/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by Uncle Elmo Originally posted by Valentine Revolution right, as i had stated in the original thread:
i *think* what the other's were saying (sorry if it is not, but it's certainly what I am saying) is that the a fair amount of the current kept staff are not the type of "good users" that you described Uncle Elmo. From what i've noticed, they tend to lean in the complete opposite direction of what you described. I'm not talking all staff, because they're not all the same and there are a few good apples, just a select few people who totally suck balls and have a knack for creating unnecessary drama  (edited by Gavin on 01-26-05 06:06 AM) |
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Jizuko Jiz Is The Magic! This board has run out of mana and can no longer use The Magic Level: 51 Posts: 1031/1191 EXP: 1004683 For next: 9255 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 230 days Last activity: 213 days |
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Originally posted by LenophisHe was left on staff after finding a security hole to make him admin, and then he was kept there to handle security.Maybe we should keep blackhole and xkeeper as admins too?Originally posted by Jizuko Nontheless, he hasn't done anything such for ages, years. He hasn't coded either, not that I know of, ask Jesper more about that. But he's not the 'coder' admin. Jesper plugs the security holes. Hyperhacker and regular users has reported more bugs than he has in ages. And what I said isn't a bullshit reason, it's not his job to delete posts nor threads. So, tons of inactivity and lately, missuse of power isn't grounds enough? So no, him being a security admin is as bullshit as the paypal button a while ago that went to the irc domain name instead of the board. In conclusion, Lenophis, we don't demote someone for doing their job. Quite the opposite. |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 7405/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| Guess what? I found security bugs too, yet i'm not a admin or even a local moderator, same with XKeeper. Go figure. Besides the few things that bass did code didn't go through on this board, and why don't do we still have Erkdog on staff by that logic then? He coded parts of the board after all... Besides he kinda forced things into the board, that the other staff didn't want. That lock feature anyone? Most staff thought there was no need for it but... heh. I didn't see that discussion in the staff forum, but I heard that most didn't see a need for it and even thought that it would give the impression that the admins didn't trust the local mods. (edited by Kitten Yiffer on 01-26-05 06:24 AM) |
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Prier Archangel Administrative Priestess. NUCLEAR SUB WEEEOOOO Level: 119  Posts: 4902/8392 EXP: 18790939 For next: 138352 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima Dist. - Tokyo, Japan Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| Wow, this is exactly what I expected no matter who stayed and who went and who got promo'd. It's incredible how predictable people are. I'll be as direct as I can about it: If you don't like it, leave; this wasn't an easy thing to get done by any means and people had been putting off work for it for the longest time because of this reaction right here for point one, because people knew that people would bitch. Funny thing is, staff in general doesn't even have to take a small inch of comment from any normal member and yet we chose to bury ourselves anyways and ask if you wanted a staff re-org or not. Can't complain about the numbers, folks. You wanted it, you get what you asked for. I can't really be any more descriptive than that. Can't please everyone. So like I said, deal with it or jump ship. It really wouldn't matter to me one way or the other. I'm not a fan of people that contradict themselves that wanted something like this done only to end up bitching about it. So a few people were lost, big deal, you should figure on the fact that it was going to happen for quite a few people that were inactive anyways. Some I'm half and half on, but I know within a week that the bitching will die down just as it always does and we'll stop treating the bitchers like five-year-olds. Case in point: Save your breath. I'm not for reading bitching and I doubt you'll get your way by doing so. |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43 Posts: 412/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by Rain lol, please tell me you're not really that arrogant are you? "Thank you your Highness, for letting us lick your table scraps off of the floor! Us lowly, undeserving normal members are so gracious!" (edited by Gavin on 01-26-05 08:33 AM) |
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Prier Archangel Administrative Priestess. NUCLEAR SUB WEEEOOOO Level: 119 Posts: 4907/8392 EXP: 18790939 For next: 138352 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima Dist. - Tokyo, Japan Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| That was an attempt to be an asshole or an attempt to be funny? Anyways, no, but I'm just saying that you asked for it and you got it. Staff could've easily just kept this non-public and we didn't. We figured it would have been better off if we had the people off of staff actually have a say in something this important. I'm just saying that, for as much as you're bitching about it, you actually had some sway in this. In other words, it could have been a lot worse. |
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get.  Level: 73  Posts: 1180/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Well, we are lucky that the staff here are willing to discuss these things with us and ask for our opinion. There are a lot of forums where the staff will implement changes without asking or informing their users at all. There are even some where the staff reserve the right to ban whomever for any (or no) reason at any time. We are lucky here that the staff do ask for our opinions. But they can't please everybody all of the time, and any decision they make will upset at least SOMEBODY. I have no solution for that, sorry. |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 2583/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| This is in response to like, older posts, but I feel somewhat of an obligation to defend those that I felt shouldn't have been demoted (and there are only 2 that come right to mind, though there are likely others) Rydain: If she wasn't active, then how was she able to both warn me for being a bastard and fix a problem with another person's account recently? She does way more than most users can see. Yiffy Kitten: Oh wait, he had a pretty good self-defense already, so no need for me to lower its quality in any way. And I actually agreed with the promotion of Toxic, just in case anyone wanted to know. Ok, and as for the holes left because there are certain un-modded forums or whatever: 1) If full mods stay active, it shouldn't be a big deal. 2) If 1 does not come true, then the decision to fully demote admins and full mods instead of putting them as local mods will have proven to bite the decision makers in the ass. |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69  Posts: 1733/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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| Just to clear this up: there was no conspiracy. No "lower level staff" was in charge. Without recalling the exact list of the people in the committee, there was at least three admins there. It was a scaled down version but pretty much proportionally right when it comes to representation on every powerlevel. Yes, scaled down means that not everyone was there. It's called a committee. The vast majority of people were demoted for inactivity. It seems to have been a blunder that Rydain slipped by, and I think she's on the way back in, but in no way does "having been on staff for four years" amount to anything. "Having been on staff for four years and getting things done" does. |
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Kasumi-Astra Administrator Level: 62  Posts: 1133/1867 EXP: 1971846 For next: 12840 Since: 03-15-04 From: Reading, UK Uni: Sheffield, UK Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 12 hours |
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| The general point is that things aren't finished. Of course two hours can't produce a definitive staff, and this is why things are being changed based on further consideration. If you have a point, by all means voice it, the good ones will be considered. However, everyone on the committee was soley interested in improving the way the board is run by instating a clearly defined staff. |
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Valcion YOU WA SHOCK Level: 50  Posts: 708/1139 EXP: 939607 For next: 7710 Since: 03-15-04 From: internets. Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by GavinOriginally posted by Rain Gee, i wonder why he worded it like that, gavin. I fucking wonder. Could it be because in general you give the staff attitude like that, no matter what decision they do? Oh no, couldn't be it. |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43 Posts: 413/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by ValcionOriginally posted by GavinOriginally posted by Rain i was merely pointing out that i found that comment and the situation extremely amusing. Hm.. i wonder.. how does Hiryuu keep his balance with a head twice the size of his body? Now that would be amusing to watch i understand that you can not please everyone, and sometimes it's not even worth trying. I just don't appreciate Rain pretending he's doing us all some sort of grand favor by even reading the original thread poll and deeming it not below himself to act. (edited by Gavin on 01-26-05 11:39 AM) |
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Anya The Exile Ultima Mezcla de Yin Yan Level: 98  Posts: 4003/5337 EXP: 9530313 For next: 124040 Since: 03-15-04 From: South Florida Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| Alright, knock it off, all of you. Lets keep this as civil as we can, okay? If you can't find something constructive to say, then don't say it, or do it via PM. And this is going out to ALL of us, got it? (edited by Anya on 01-26-05 11:39 AM) |
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