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2 users currently in General Chat:  Dark Vampriel |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - A Mandate From The Masses |
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Should Legion be Unbanned?| Yes |
38.5%, 15 votes | No |
61.5%, 24 votes | Multi-voting is disabled.
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Grey the Stampede Don't mess with powers you don't understand. And yes. That means donuts. Level: 82  Posts: 1560/3770 EXP: 5192909 For next: 16318 Since: 06-17-04 From: Kingston, RI, USA, Earth Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Jesus fucking christ, I leave for two weeks and a huge flame war erupts... I read up on the situation, I understand the circumstances, and I know what has happened before his permaban. Yes, he has antagonized repeatedly. But many of us have, with impunity, I might add. Perhaps if the fire was not so heavily fed, then it would not have caused so many flames. Other people were banned alongside him, but he was the only permanent ban, despite the fact that several of the people who participated in the argument with him have argued before. This is not discrimination, but at the same time, it is, in my opinion, unjust. I know many people will complain about his ban, as Legion was, and probably still is, a rather important part of the board. I propose we let the people decide, rather than just the staff. Should Legion remain permabanned? |
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Kwan Doesn't have a valid sized userpic. ||bass will be pissed :(((((((( Level: 50  Posts: 1023/1137 EXP: 937111 For next: 10206 Since: 03-15-04 From: Durkadurkastan! Since last post: 22 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| THE VOTES. THEY DO NOTHING. NOTHIIIING. | |||
Super Sion You BlockHead! Level: 70 Posts: 1705/2472 EXP: 3002513 For next: 13298 Since: 03-15-04 From: Yo Mommas House Since last post: 29 min. Last activity: 5 min. |
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| Since Legion was my Pal I say he should be un-banned | |||
Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 7220/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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And did you see the stuff in IRC too no? He just got g-lines there too.  And oh, Nebetsu was also permamently banned. Alongside with him, and consider the amount of bans and warnings he suppodsly collected. Infact the staff was rather nice to him when it did come to bans, compared to other people. ...thought he acted like he wanted to be banned. Or he just got a complete personality change, he wasn't like this before.  And even if he did things that was uncalled for, I could easily forgive him for doing thoose things if he for once acts nice again. But that dosen't get him automatically unbanned. Originally posted by Kwan...well Kario got unbanned by Acmlm after a big thread of people wanting him unbanned and stuff. (edited by Kitten Yiffer on 01-12-05 02:44 PM) |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69  Posts: 1611/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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| Legion was my friend too. Note the 'was'. I tried to help him more than anyone else. I offered help telling the ones responsible for "feeding the fire" - I'm not blind, I could see what those people did - to tone it down a notch, in exchange for him doing the same. All through a five-PM session with him, he failed to recognize that he had done something wrong, choosing to blame it *all* on other people (I might have agreed if he had even acknowledged own guilt). He accused me of trying to net 'brownie points' within the staff. He told me to back down several times. I kept at it, because I thought I could help him. Not because I'm an admin, not because I'm a saint, but because I regarded him as one of my better online friends. He just wouldn't budge, and the flames got worse. Through and through, his flaming increased, and he did not even in a split second show any regret for what he had done, or owned up to the fact that he was at the very least partially responsible. Other people banned him here - I swear. I would name names, but these people were pissed off at me for naming those names earlier, somewhere else, so I will respect their wishes and not tell. (If you know, good for you.) And then we had the whole IRC issue, which was the same old bean. Even when I wasn't actively around, he kept spoon-feeding the rest of the channel with flames - even flaming other people, totally out of the blue, for all I could see. And then of course when I and one of the others tried to talk with him about it, he would victimize himself to trick people into feeling sorry for him. I eventually got so pissed off that I G-Lined him prematurely. I fully own up to the fact that this isn't standard procedure, but when regarding earlier records (from the days before, on IRC) it followed the same pattern as on the board, and I just couldn't - even now can't - see a way for him to not have earned it in the day or days following. Legion is not a martyr. He was perhaps hurt by circumstances, but he put in a solid flaming effort all on his own, and that's just not defendable. If anything will make him come back, votes is not it. Evidence and argumentation is. Unless it turns out that my record above has great, big, glaring omissions, in which place he's acting like an angel to anyone - I'm aware of the fact that he managed to get along with a select few people even at the end; that's the exception, not the general rule - his bans will not be revoked. I am aware that some staff members think that they should, but based on what I think, and based on his record, they shouldn't. (edited by Jesper on 01-12-05 02:55 PM) |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34  Posts: 259/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| well, that stomped out any attempt for Legion to be unbanned.... I think he should be banned.... I'm not quite sure why he was unbanned after he was permabanned like 2+ years ago.... but hey.... at least we have it right again |
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macks Level: 45 Posts: 539/900 EXP: 659955 For next: 209 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 22 hours |
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yes  And I think I've talked to him like once, so the whole "omg his total budz want him back" thing doesn't really work ;P |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 1613/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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| In the interest of full disclosure, I was the one who unbanned Leg in the first place, because he was good. And indeed he stayed good for quite some time. But the thing with Leg is that he has periods in which he's good and periods in which he's mad as hell, arrogant and a general asshat. there's no way to guess the order and length of these periods, nor is there a way to make up for bad behavior from one period with good behavior from another. That's just not how it works. I could insert a comparison involving Nazi Germany here, but I'd automatically lose the discussion, and the comparison would be ridiculously overpowered and would draw away focus from the topic at hand. I seriously have no idea on how to illustrate my point; you can't make up for bad with good. You may or may not think so, but that's the general idea that the staff has, and it's the general idea that the rules are based on. |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 1307/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| Eh... it's a hard call that I'm probably a little biased in. I've had a small flame war with him over the Kario thread and frankly he just doesn't know when to shut the hell up. It's like he's got this obsession about being right with people. But he also contributes humor and amusement to the board, so he definitely has some redeeming qualities. A permaban? Maybe not. But I think he's just one of those people who needs like a 1 month ban every now and then to cool off. It happens in real relationships you know... I have a friend I used to work with who would get so angry over some things he'd just take a week off out of the blue (and he was usually asked to do so.) |
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Xkeeper The required libraries have not been defined. Level: NAN  Posts: -2719/-863 EXP: NAN For next: 0 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: -753366 sec. |
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| You forget this is his third permaban. THIRD. This goes beyond anything anyone else has ever recieved, and he's not coming back from it. He earned it, hell, even theperson who unbanned him believes he deserves it. HE IS NOT COMING BACK. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 2412/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Legion, we tried to help. We built him a steel bridge, and gave him warnings. Many of them. But he decided to take out a welding torch and just seperate it til' it fell. I was his friend, but he won't listen to us anymore. He has by all means snapped. We gave him the customary flaming band, and he came back fists swinging reacting to Kefka and knuck. Interestingly, if he would've ignored them, then the issue wouldn't have happened. Just like if Nebetsu would think before posting he wouldn't have more warnings than Hitler did about the imminent collapse of the "1000" year Reich and not get banned. I personally think that if he can present a good, articulate case for why he has been behaving this way, we could allow him back on the board and IRC. I think we can accept that for anyone who has been perma'd ever. If they can grandeloquently place their logic, it would be perfectly suitable. I have some ideas on board reform, but it would require a large concerted effort by not only the staff, but by the whole board. It would take months and really tax the staff-user relationship. It could very well be done, but the board itself would have to be willing to go in on it before we even start talking about a total reform. |
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Prier Archangel Administrative Priestess. NUCLEAR SUB WEEEOOOO Level: 119  Posts: 4741/8392 EXP: 18790939 For next: 138352 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima Dist. - Tokyo, Japan Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| I don't think any of us were finding reasons to ban Leg. Far from it, he was shoving reasons down people and staff's throats almost daily. We didn't want to for the longest time but he kept being more annoying and more like a five-year-old daily. If that's how he wants to be treated, so be it. I wouldn't mind unbanning him either but I know how he's going to act, and for that sorry sight I'd rather not. I've already done LOADS AND LOADS of debating over this in staff forums as is with many of the staff. This wasn't an easy decision for anyone, given the amount of respect Legion has/had, but it was necessary, it was board rules...and you know sometimes we have to do our job when we don't like to. By my counts...if Leg was anyone else...he would've been perma-banned a month or two ago. We were being that lenient I think. |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43  Posts: 374/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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| you guys are kidding right? this is some kinda of weird joke, someone please tell me... This is just a message board... and the weirdest group of people i've ever met. Because this is only the freaking internet, i vote for Legion to be back. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 2415/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Gavin, this community is really tightly knit. I have met some of these people in real life, and we exchange cards. I have spoken to some on the phone, and we are as close friends as people can get in real life. It is a unique one, I might add. As for me, I'm just bad luck with getting my shit together for my cards this year, like last year. They're coming, but there is always something that comes up  I have the letters written, the letters in the envelopes, and the envelopes in my desk. The postage up stairs, and the gifts in the envelopes too. There has just been bad luck. |
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Toxic in a sublime state of mind Level: 75  Posts: 2263/2857 EXP: 3732709 For next: 94195 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 8 hours |
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| "There was no telling what people might find out once they felt free to ask whatever questions they wanted to." | |||
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 1614/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Originally posted by GavinThere are three kinds of people in this, or any, conflict: The attackers, the defenders, and those who stand aside either shaking their heads or not caring at all. It doesn't matter much to the majority of this board, but for those it matters to, I'd say it matters a lot. Either you can skim the board purely pragmatically, participating but not getting involved in any greater rate - like you - or you can form a lot of friendships while doing your board rounds, and all of a sudden the place means a lot to you just because you met a few guys here. (Hint: helping to run it doesn't help. ) |
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Xkeeper The required libraries have not been defined. Level: NAN Posts: -2717/-863 EXP: NAN For next: 0 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: -753366 sec. |
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FAQLegion was given several chances (both on this board and the old board) extending beyond the 3-strike system (going into 2 permabans, even), and still constantly did it. Does being a certain user mean you're exempt from the rules? Oh my god, Legion was banned because he was purposely being an ass to people. Unban Legion because he's (kickass/respected/cool/your word of choice). That smells of favoritism. The rules say he deserved the ban. I'm not staff, so I can't give a staff-side opinion, but from my (biased) view, Legion deserved this. Any other user probably would've gotten "Yay! He's gone!" unanimously. Legion gets perma'd and half the board flares up in his defense. EDIT: ADDED THIS --v Originally posted by Grey"Perhaps if the fire was not so heavily fed..." You forget that at any time during that, he could've simply backed away and left it alone, letting themselves get banned and just staying out of it. Instead, he chose to remain in the battle and get himself banned. "Other people were banned alongside him, but he was the only permanent ban, despite the fact that several of the people who participated in the argument with him have argued before." He had argued many, many times. Many of the people banned with him were on their first ban. Legion was on his... what... 6th? At least? If the others had been there, there would've been permabans. Not to mention that Legion had been crossing the line before that happened; the war in the Mosts thread was a cataclyst, so to speak. "I know many people will complain about his ban, as Legion was... a rather important part of the board" And many people will agree with it. And how was he such an 'important' part of the board? "I propose we let the people decide, rather than just the staff." The staff (hopefully) follow the guidelines set forth by the rules. The rules are just that; the RULES. Break the rules and there's consequences. Just because someone blatantly broke the rules repeatedly and is 'important' does not mean they should get special treatment. Again, favoritism. A banned user was banned due to breaking the rules repeatedly. People think he kicked ass, ignoring the flames that came out of him. People will flock to his rescue, despite how fair or unfair it might have been. A banned user was banned due to breaking the rules repeatedly. Few people care, having never really noticed this person. No one ever contests the ban, despite how fair or unfair it might have been. Compare the above two paragraphs. (edited by Xkeeper on 01-12-05 04:45 PM) (edited by Xkeeper on 01-12-05 04:48 PM) |
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Emptyeye Real American Level: 67 Posts: 1236/2273 EXP: 2488421 For next: 104451 Since: 05-24-04 From: I DUNNOOOOOOOO!! Since last post: 9 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Speaking from mostly lurking on the boards, pretty much all of the last posts Legion made (and it was more than a few) were of the "LOL IDIOT!!11!" variety. If not that, then it was "LOL IDIOT STOP TRYING 2 MAEK ME LOOK BAD!1!1". Legion was very good at making himself look bad, and from what I saw, added relatively little to quality board discussion. I'm not surprised he's gone, nor am I particularly sad. Indeed, this isn't the first tiime it's happened, as XK said. More than one person basically asked "So how long does his 'permaban' last THIS time guys?" Hopefully, the staff here won't turn into CJayC of GameFAQs, who is known for giving an infinite amount of supposedly "last chances" to entire rowdy communities. |
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Sokarhacd Ball and Chain Trooper Resistance is Futile You Will Be Assimilated Hab SoSlI' Quch Level: 61  Posts: 978/1757 EXP: 1799888 For next: 76708 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 6 days Last activity: 4 hours |
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| hmmm...I had to vote for no...just because, he had several chances, and if he gets unbanned, it would seem to me, he will go and do what he always does....so no... | |||
kiwibonga Double metal axe Level: 27  Posts: 252/266 EXP: 106040 For next: 10119 Since: 03-15-04 From: Montreal, QC, Canada Since last post: 126 days Last activity: 3 days |
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| Hmm... Where's the irc server, I can't connect anymore... And about Legion getting banned... I don't know what happened, I wasn't there. May his soul rest in peace. I'll vote "yes" because I know he would have liked it, but hmm, based on... 3 months ago, NO! DON'T BAN HIM!!! OMG. EDIT: shit... I thought it said "stay banned" instead of unbanned. I meant... I will vote not to unban him bcuz its funney (edited by kiwibonga on 01-12-05 05:08 PM) |
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