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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - World AIDS Day |
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The SomerZ Summer, yay! Level: 45  Posts: 612/862 EXP: 618182 For next: 41982 Since: 03-15-04 From: Norway Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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| Well, Legion, the USA is among those state that gives the least in foreign aid relative to the state's GDP. The way the aid is given is also questionable, it seems as if it is given to help America broaden its influence over weak states, not to actually help those who need help. Then ad all the questionable and downright shitty stuff the USA has done in international politics over the last 50 years (while trying to disguise their doings as good and noble deeds), and I don't really see why it's so surprising that people dislike the US of America's foreign policies so much. (edited by The SomerZ on 12-03-04 07:32 AM) |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 3146/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| What a load of shit. But this is you we're talking about. I expect it from you. And that foreign aid relative to the GDP doesn't hold weight because you and others who use that arguement fail to forget that unlike a lot of countries who just sit around and give money, our foreign aid consists of humanitarian operations and such. Things like that have cost us billions and isn't factored into that number. "Then ad all the questionable and downright shitty stuff the USA has done in international politics over the last 50 years (while trying to disguise their doings as good and noble deeds), and I don't really see why it's so surprising that people dislike the US of America's foreign policies so much." Don't make me laugh. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 1817/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Because most of the money you give goes to overthrowing governments and funding military endevours around the world. And these "humanitarian" operations are done through the UN and the US rarely ever goes in. |
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hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38  Posts: 450/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
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| I didn't recall that it was the duty of the American taxpayer to throw money at poor nations. Take what you get, like it, and don't ask for a cent more, because it's not our fault that you believe that raping babies will make you immune to AIDS. If aid is used for strategic purposes, great. Then it's not a complete waste of my tax money. And I have real trouble believing that the $500 million pledged to fight AIDS in Africa is being squandered so inefficiently that less than 2% of it actually goes towards fighting the disease. Again, give an actual source on this $10 million figure. (edited by hhallahh on 12-03-04 12:14 PM) |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3147/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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hhllahalha........wtf was that?  |
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The SomerZ Summer, yay! Level: 45 Posts: 613/862 EXP: 618182 For next: 41982 Since: 03-15-04 From: Norway Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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Originally posted by |+Legion+| You can argue with me whether the US foreign policy of the last 50 years has been questionable and shitty, but you cannot argue with me that the reason why a lot of people dislike US foreign policy is because they hold the view I just presented. Also, what happened to debating the issue, not the person? I don't see what saying stuff like What a load of shit. But this is you we're talking about. I expect it from you. brings to this discussion. Also, as Ziff says, humanitarian operations are international and through the UN, and not exclusive to the US. Anyway, the UN has set a target for all western states to give 0.7% of their GDP to foreign aid. By today, only four countries, the Scandinavian countries and the Netherlands, meets this goal. I believe the US is at 0.2%. And hhallahh, though I'm fairly sure you don't agree with me on this, I say that the western states have a moral obligation to aid 3rd world countries, because Europe and North America got their wealth through the exploitaition of other countries during the Imperialist era. Even states that never were empires and never had a single colony benefited from this era and the system that was in use back then, thus, the view that you should Take what you get, like it, and don't ask for a cent more is morally wrong, I believe. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3149/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| "You can argue with me whether the US foreign policy of the last 50 years has been questionable and shitty, but you cannot argue with me that the reason why a lot of people dislike US foreign policy is because they hold the view I just presented." But of course.  "Also, what happened to debating the issue, not the person? I don't see what saying stuff like What a load of shit. But this is you we're talking about. I expect it from you. brings to this discussion." Are you going to be ok?  I'd suggest drinking some warm milk so you can sleep tonight. "Because most of the money you give goes to overthrowing governments and funding military endevours around the world." And? It's still humanitarian. If we converted all the money we used in such operations, then we'd be at the top of that silly misleading list. |
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hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38 Posts: 451/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
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Originally posted by The SomerZ The problem with that reasoning is that states are not discrete units subject to moral evaluation. The United States is comprised of 285 million individuals, the vast majority of whom were not alive in the era of imperialism. Likewise, the billions of people in the third world have not been victimized by this imperialism as well. Sure, we all benefit from the actions of our ancestors, but the fact is that trying to rectify perceived injustices so far back into the past is completely pointless. I mean, America rests on land that was stolen from the Indians centuries ago. Should we attempt to compensate the Indians with trillions of dollars of "rent"? Surely not. These injustices are so beyond calculation that it's useless to even bother, unless you're trying to make some silly symbolic effort in order to ease your collective guilt. The lesson is that it shouldn't be done again - perhaps. It's certainly possible that, if not for our "exploitation", many civilizations would still be back under feudal or tribal conditions. Past injustices are bad, but to act like they can be rectified is absurd, especially when you ask people who had no role in the commision of those injustices to pay for them. In any modern society, if a man commits an injustice against you and then dies, are you allowed to sue his son? No, of course not, even if that person's son benefitted from his commision of an injustice. It would be a very screwed up system if it were otherwise. |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61  Posts: 481/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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Originally posted by |+Legion+|Originally posted by windwaker A little defensive, are we?  More like a little high strung.  Cancer research is useful. Going to war with irrelevant countries, on the other hand, isn't  . Just a waste of lives/money/lies. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3151/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| Um, no? I was asking you what your point is. Trust me, you'll know when I'm being high strung. What you did right there was a cheap tactic to make it look like I'm scrambling for ANYTHING to help my case. While it's not a bad move, you executed it way too early. noob. "Going to war with irrelevant countries, on the other hand, isn't . Just a waste of lives/money/lies." Um, I'm sure you're referrring to Iraq. But you're dead wrong. And um, how does one go about "wasting lies"? |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 1828/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by hhallahh Steven Lewis. STEVEN LEWIS, STEVEN LEWIS, STEVEN LEWIS. Here maybe to reiterate it a little bit... STEVEN LEWISHalllahahhahh: Why not stop these injustices that we so atrociously commit by ensuring, as first world nations, that we give generously to the less fortunate. |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 482/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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Originally posted by |+Legion+|  image meant to be crappy. Noooooooooow... Wtf are you talking about man? I wasn't attacking you, I was just wondering. If I say "the war in iraq could have funded 13 years of AIDS research", saying "So what?" doesn't really have any purpose or contribution, it's just something to think about . Mainly when we went to war with a country based on inaccurate info. It's not like people gripe over money being dumped into cancer research when it could be dumped into AIDS research.Very smart. (edited by windwaker on 12-04-04 12:33 AM) |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3154/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| Ugh, kids. First off, wtf is the point of that image? Is that some kind of inside joke because I don't get it. Moving on, I think it's funny how you thinking saying "So what?" has no purpose because so did the comment you made. It's a pointless speculation. It's not even remotely interesting. War in Iraq, war on AIDS. Both good causes. Why substitute on for the other. Go back and read my cancer comparison again. It's basically saying the same thing. Why not just say "You know, if we would have kept 13 years of AIDS research money, we could have funded the entire war in Iraq"? Same thing just reversed. Not a very meaningful comment. "Very smart." omg you flamed me why?  im telling an admin on you |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 484/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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| plz plz plz don't tell admin Haven't you heard the saying, the pot calling the kettle black? You know, if we would have kept 13 years of AIDS research money, we could have funded the entire war in Iraq. happy? That just states it in a more "omg iraq woohoo" kind of way.(edited by windwaker on 12-04-04 12:39 AM) |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3155/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| No, I haven't heard that before. Anyway, if you're not going to take this seriously, then why bother posting here? Here, I'll give you an example of what WOULD have been an interesting and appropriate thing to say. Hypothetical time. Say we, the US, spend millions and millions of dollars researching the werewolves. There, now that is a stupid thing to waste money on. Why? Because werewolves are fictional creations so throwing all that money towards it and NOT something that could benefit mankind (like AIDS research) would be stupid. So saying something like "You know, all that wearwolf research could have funded....you know the rest". That would have been acceptable. (edited by |+Legion+| on 12-04-04 12:46 AM) |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 492/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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| Christ. There's no point for me to go on and on about how the war in Iraq is pointless, because people already knoow that. Most intelligent beings would probably assume by saying "Werewolf research could have funded *insert something more important*" that werewolf research is a waste of money, and that it could have gone to fund something else  .It's the same exact thing. Wtf are you talking about "taking this seriously?" I take politics very seriously, as it directly affects a lot of people < |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3160/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| There's no point for me to go on and on about how the war in Iraq is pointless, because people already knoow that." By far the most ignorant and stupid thing I've ever read in this forum. Please tell me you were joking. No, you must have been. No one is that stupid. |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 510/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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| Angry republican alert, weeeeeeeeeeoooooooooo weeeeeeeeeeeooooo. Now I understand, this is an entirely different issue, this now has nothing to do with AIDS. The war in Iraq is pointless, but this is hardly the thread to discuss that in . |
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hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38 Posts: 452/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
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Originally posted by ZiffskiOriginally posted by hhallahh See, ziffikiski, the point of asking for a source is that you're not supposed to make an assertion and then tell your opponent to go digging for the evidence of your assertion in order to refute it. I really don't care to do so. You're supposed to link an article or source or whatever of your quote, not just a name. Geez, basic internet social rules. I'd think people would know them by now. And how the hell does giving money stop injustices? Does not giving money create injustices? Maybe one could give money to lobby against injustices, but if we're commiting injustices, then no amount of money is going to make that otherwise. Methinks your post is just poorly worded. (edited by hhallahh on 12-04-04 04:23 PM) |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 1841/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| You need to learn these rules to. When someone lists a source, you shut the fuck up. Basic internet etiquette. As for what you do, there is a thing called over-referencing. It has gotten me into many a problems with my thesis, because it boils down to you not having a spine. Basic essay rules. "And how the hell does giving money stop injustices? Does not giving money create injustices? Maybe one could give money to lobby against injustices, but if we're commiting injustices, then no amount of money is going to make that otherwise. Methinks your post is just poorly worded." What the hell does your post mean? At least mine didn't pose half a dozen rhetorical questions. |
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