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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Ukrainian Election Fraud |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 1754/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Yeah, even though by rights Yushenko should've won (75% of the popular vote, with exit polls have himing far in the lead) Yanukovich has declared himself the winner. Putin is pledging troops to the party which is pro-Russian and recently "won" this election. Looks like civil war is a good possibility. | |||
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 5255/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Both Canada and the United States look set to cut off diplomatic ties with Ukraine if the election result isn't proven. (The Canadian announcement of this led to a large standing ovation in the House of Commons - even by the opposition MP's.) The problem is that I saw the electoral map - and it's a PERFECT SPLIT between north/south. Half of the country's red, the other half is green. That's not good. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 1758/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Well, its not EXACTLY like that. According to my immigrant friends everyone on the west side of the Dnipro river are rooting for Yushenko, whereas on the East side of the river the people want to become part of Russia. The nation is really divided if you want to get into ethnography. Crimeans, Kyvians, Russians, Jews, Yiddish Jews, etc. It is whack. The simple fact is that the "current winner" is being opposed by the major population centres, Odessa, Lviv,Kyiv, etc. He is hated because he wants to phase out Ukrainian language as the first language and relegate it to a status like French in the US. Its there, but no one cares. The other party is more nationalistic and want to bolster the old ways of Ukrainian culture. Of course Yanukovich basically used intimidation tactics like death threats to have people like old women and underage voters to sign their ballots for him. The stories and information trickling out from the election are really saddening. It seems the land of my forefathers is truly as degraded as everyone jokes at it being. |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 1035/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| A candidate being opposed by major populations centers? Hmmm sounds familiar... | |||
Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 225/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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| Ziff, are you sure that 75% isn't "75% of the vote counted" because I've seen that the Ukraine Electoral Commission said that the result was "too close to call" after 75% of the vote was counted. The election itself is obviously very suspect but the actual official results were very close - Yanukovych 49.46%, Yushchenko: 46.61%. Also: I think the "East vs West" "Russia vs EU/US" angle is being overplayed by the media becuase that's a simple and easy way to present it to the world. Both candidates surely recognise that this equation no longer exists and both need to be dealt with. It seems much more a issue of simple ethnic divisions and different political views than any cold war style power play. Ziff's rather neatly illustrating the ethnic Ukrainian view, I'm sure the Russians have their own take on the situation that's just as angry and compelling. Also also: Yes, violence looks very likely. Things are getting very entrenched and polarised. strikes have begun and demonstrations continue. Pro-Yanukovich miners from the east are being bussed into Kiev, probably to start trouble, and new riot police from economically disadvantaged, rural, less "sophisticated" pro-Yanukovich areas have been placed at the very epicentre of the demonstrations from yesterday. They're much more likely to open fire if they feel threatened than Kiev native police are. The aim is probably to spark something and give the security forces a reason to crack down, calling it necessary to avoid civil war or a coup. Whether it actually goes into civil war or not is a different question altogether. Also also also: I'm almost certain Russia won't get involved even if it's claimed they are. Putin's got too much at stake for too little gain, and has made statements distancing himself from Yanukovich, no longer loudly supporting him. He's probably got Georgia on his mind... his involvement in the Ukrain could have huge consequences for the tense situation in Georgia, where the US has base and interests. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 1763/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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 Effective regional breakdown of the Ukraine's vote. I forget that Odessa rested near the Black Sea and got confused on what they voted. Chances are I just messed up the name with another city. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 3157/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Well Ziff, I'm sure by now you've heard the news.  |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 1829/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by |+Legion+| The election has been recalled for Boxing Day. What a great Christmas present for Democracy  |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 5428/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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Which of course doesn't matter because the Ukranians celebrate Christmas in 2005 anyways.  But hopefully this means they WILL have a great Christmas when the time comes.  |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 1864/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by Colleen There are many ethnicities of Ukrainians. Only the Urinites and Orthodox do that. The Protestants generally celebrate on the 25th, but its not a recognized holiday I love how this thing is a giant slap in the face for Putin's neo-fascist regime in Russia. Too bad people look at Yushenko and say "pro-western" instead of Ukrainian nationalist. He just wants to get Ukraine out of the grasp of Russia and restore some of its ancient glory. Russia has held the nation for centuries, and I think it is time for the nation to no longer be a little place that Russia more or less owns, but a unique nation that the citizens can be proud of. |
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