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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Tobacco bans |
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The SomerZ Summer, yay! Level: 45  Posts: 595/862 EXP: 618182 For next: 41982 Since: 03-15-04 From: Norway Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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| Ireland, Norway, Australia, Iran, Montenegro, Malta, the Netherlands, Tanzania, certain Canadian provinces and certain US states have banned smoking in public places (indoors), the EU have banned the sales of snuff in all member-countries (except Sweden), and many countries (including the UK) are talking about a ban on smoking in public places. However, Bhutan is now paving the way with a ban on all sales of tobacco. Personally, I'm all for the idea of banning smoking in public places, people should be allowed to work in a smoke-free environment, and this includes waiters and bartenders. However, I'm thinking Bhutan is pushing it a little too far. I do understand how this helps fight tobacco-use, but I still think this is pushing it a little too far. |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 222/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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| Given that I'm an advocate of LESS restrictive laws about drugs, further criminalisation of a minor and not too harmful drug is obviously a huge step in the wrong direction. But then, Bhutan's is a very different country, I understand it's quite a staind, conservative and religious monarchy, and also a very different culture to mine, and perhaps they're coming at this from a radically different angle to me. As for smoking bans in public, I'm undecided. As a non-smoker I am frequently irritated by cigarette smoke at pubs and such, but is it really right to legislate on that irritation and force it on others? How can I support this, and then oppose over-zealous killjoy enforcement regarding noise complaints and public disorderliness and disturbing the peace and loitering and other such anti-fun laws based on the idea of "you don't have the right to cause even minor nuisance to those around you"? So I'm undecided. Because I'm pro-fun and pro-freedom and pro-consideration for others. However, the legality of the public use of a drug (one that causes unpleasantness for those around the user and thus isn't purely a personal matter), and the criminalisation of private possession and use, are two differentissues that perhaps shouldn't be linked like this. The former is a matter of public health and civic minded comprimise - cigarette smoke is fucking obnoxious - the latter a matter of basic unobtrusive personal freedoms... what you or I do in the private sanctuary of my own home, should be my own damn business if it doesn't harm people, and that includes pursuing self-destructive but fun pursuits. Finally: you're subtly incorrect about Australia. All the states except one have introduced laws about smoking in pubs and clubs, that will come into effect between 2 and 5 years from now depending on the state. We haven't actually banned smoking in public places or even all private places yet. (edited by Arwon on 11-18-04 09:43 AM) |
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The SomerZ Summer, yay! Level: 45 Posts: 596/862 EXP: 618182 For next: 41982 Since: 03-15-04 From: Norway Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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| I apologize for adding Australia, then. I was actually under the impression that the only places having banned public smoking were Ireland, Norway, New York, and California. However, Wikipedia said otherwise, and that was why those other countries were added to the list. I guess we see things a wee bit different, Arwon. As a smoker living in a place where the temperature is currently -6C (and dropping), you'd think I'd be pro the possibility to smoke indoors. However, smoking is bad for your health, as is second-hand smoke, and when thinking back at how the bars were before the ban, I can't imagine it could have been a very nice place to work. Smoking is not just an annoying nuisance, it's health-damaging. I do understand your liberal viewpoint, that this imposes on people's rights to liberty and freedom, but I do not agree. I'm against politicians setting guidelines on moral questions, as I see that to be truly tampering with freedom, but as far as this question is concerned, I see it as purely a health-thing. |
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Jizuko Jiz Is The Magic! This board has run out of mana and can no longer use The Magic Level: 51  Posts: 888/1191 EXP: 1004683 For next: 9255 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 230 days Last activity: 213 days |
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I thought Sweden banned indoor smoking in public places.  But why ban snuff? (snus right?) It doesn't cause any harm to other people (unlike smoking) and I personally have nothing against it, if people wants to use it then sure, just aslong as they are aware of the risks. |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 6163/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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Snuff is disgusting and some of the snuffers are plain... uncaring about where they place it after using it. At least the young ones.  Sweden have it banned on public, i'm quite sure. You aren't allowed to smoke inside the school's area for example. Thought that ban dosen't apply snuff... with is more common in my class than gum. Yes my class is full of snuffers. I personally find it disgusting...  But I understand why they ban it in public places, I hate the smell of smoke. It's smells so disgusting for me, any many other people think that too. If there is something I hate it's smokers smoking outside an entrance. I don't mind them smoking as long they don't do it where people are wallking in and out... (another case is smoking at a bus stop, I really hate that) Snuff seems to decrease the amount of smokers thought, I know no male smoking. And the few smoking are females. |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34  Posts: 157/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| not so harmful drug? [laugh].... ciggarettes aren't not so harmful.... people get sick and die from smoking on a daily basis.... it's one of the main reasons that old people have cancer, not the only, but a big part of it.... and personally.... I don't want to have to pick and choose where I go because of the amount of smoke I have to deal with... I also don't enjoy coming home after being out in a public place and having to wash my clothes right after to get the smell out... it's a disgusting, destructive habit that I think should be totally outlawed, but that won't happen.... so let's just tax them until people can't afford to smoke anymore!!!!  kidding |
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The SomerZ Summer, yay! Level: 45 Posts: 597/862 EXP: 618182 For next: 41982 Since: 03-15-04 From: Norway Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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| I was at a caf | |||
MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 985/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| Boo. I don't smoke outside of bars but no smoking in bars is ridiculous. If you go to a bar you ought to expect to smell like smoke and booze afterwords. It's not like to you go to a bar to get healthy anyways... But banning all tobacco sales is a little excessive imo. I'd actually wish they'd just restrict its sales to bars, that way it would cut down on underage users, and people who would otherwise need to smoke would have to go to one, making it inconvenient to do so. But that's my twisted view of the universe. My college town is actually banning smoking in all bars after this year. They banned smoking in all restaurants and such last year. Good thing I'm graduating... |
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The SomerZ Summer, yay! Level: 45 Posts: 598/862 EXP: 618182 For next: 41982 Since: 03-15-04 From: Norway Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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| Oh, and I do believe the reason they banned snuff in all EU countries (except Sweden) was because snuff had not become a big thing in any of the EU countries (except Sweden), and thus they wanted to remove it before it could grow big. People won't miss what they never had, y'know. | |||
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 163/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| you know, I Really like that idea that would keep smoking somewhat more restricted.... and would prevent underage people from buying ciggarettes.... I like that and I don't remember mentioning bars... I dont' go to bars.... but I would expect that bars would allow smoking, since they are 18+ only establishments... everywhere else, I would have to say no though... smoking is disgusting, and should be restricted |
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macks Level: 45 Posts: 468/900 EXP: 659955 For next: 209 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 22 hours |
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| Simple: as long as all other types of drugs are banned by law, so should tobacco/nicotine. | |||
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 164/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| heh, I totally agree.... although, you ban nicotine, then why not ban caffiene? it is being found to be quite addictive as well, not quite as addictive.... but people that drink anything caffienated have servere withdrawl siymptons if they go off of caffiene... but I do agree.... I'd like to see tobacco go... but it won't... tobacco companies have too much political power.... |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67 Posts: 987/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| If by severe withdrawal you mean I get a headache for a day, then yeah. Pop two advil and bingo, all better. I've quit for months at a time before. It's just that getting all my homework done would not be possible without it. And yeah, there is nothing like having a beer in one hand, and a cigarette in the other. But smoke too much and you start getting nasty. btw banning drugs is all relative. There is really no reason marijuana should be banned, and yet it is. Much of that comes down to stereotypical expectations of the type of people that use it. My friend's dad is a hard working lawyer but he lights up a bowl all the time. But the image of the pot smoker is the lazy, welfare check receiving deadbeat type. |
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Tamarin Calanis We exist. Earth exists. The universe exists. Do we really need to know why? Level: 59 Posts: 140/1802 EXP: 1672751 For next: 377 Since: 07-12-04 From: The gas station on the corner... Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| I've said my piece about illegal drugs elsewhere (for those who don't know, basically as long as it's privately used and has similar restrictions to alchohol I see no problems). But, for this subject, I'll have to say a bit more. I have asthma. And I have had it for all my life. Yet I don't care about other people (my mother and grandmother included) smoking. "Why?" you might be asking. "Why don't you care, when your own health is at risk, too?" Because no one is forcing me to stay around the smoke. If my mother's smoking starts to bother me I can go in my room, shut the door, and open the window. That option's not always available in a public building, and in most public places I agree with a ban on it - not a legal one, mind you, just a no-smoking sign on the door or in a restaurant having a seperate smoking section. But not in bars. If you're going to a bar, pub, or whatever the hell else you want to call it, chances are you're not that concerned about your health anyway. As for snuff... it's disgusting, yes. But other than that, it doesn't bother anyone but the one using it. |
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Steak Zora Level: 35  Posts: 328/507 EXP: 278751 For next: 1185 Since: 03-16-04 From: Ohio University Since last post: 195 days Last activity: 195 days |
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| Here's something to consider. The 18th Admendment to the US Constitution prohibited alcohol. This didn't work. This gave rise to organized crime. The mafia as we know it today never would have come into being without Prohibition. For quite awhile, we've had our "War on Drugs." Hemp is illegal in the States. Yet, it's rather quite prominent. I'm actually finding almost nobody who cares anymore if people do weed or not. I don't do the stuff (mostly 'cuz I'm broke all the time, and can't afford somethin' like that)...and I find it difficult to care if somebody around me does or doesn't. There's "Meigs County Gold" right here...'cuz Meigs County is next door to us. And every year, I see the helicopters out, taking infared reading, 'cuz hemp gives off a different heat signature than most other plants. Does it stop it from happening? No...doesn't even put a dent into it. Now we're talking about banning tobacco. Like that's gonna stop anything in this country, really. It goes from being a taxable industry to a criminal network. Brilliant. Let's not do that here. Banning on smoking inside public buildings...doesn't matter to me either way. On one side, I breathe easier. On the other, a fair number of my friends aren't irritible when we're out somewheres. |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67 Posts: 988/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| I was talking to a friend I have from Singapore the other day, which is a notoriously clean and anal country. They have or at the very least had a ban on chewing gum? Why? Because people throw it on the ground and stick it on other shit to make it dirty. But it wasn't illegal to chew it or possess it. You could go to Korea and bring back a shitload if you wanted. I also think that's how it is with weed in many non American locales. You can't sell it, but no one cares about seeing a stoner. In any case let's just ban all drugs because drugs are bad, mKay? XD oh wait, everyone would go insane without them. So you better not. |
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NSNick Laidback Admin Level: 85  Posts: 1344/3875 EXP: 5895841 For next: 2699 Since: 03-15-04 From: North Side School: OSU Since last post: 9 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| My city (Columbus, OH) recently passed a ban on smoking in public places. I wish I could have voted against it, but I was voting absentee in another county. I wonder how this will affect the hookah bar down the street... | |||
JR11 Rex Level: 35  Posts: 165/533 EXP: 278666 For next: 1270 Since: 06-07-04 From: Po-Town, ON Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| I'm all for the ban. Smoking is disgusting and it really isn't fair if people in the same building have to put up with you and your awful stench. | |||
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 5163/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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There's been rumors that Quebec might be considering a ban on smoking in public places, but given how we're known as "Canada/America's Ashtray", that might not be too easy to implement.  Personally, I think that most restaurants/coffee shops/etc. here have adequate smoking/non-smoking sections. My take on it is that if you can afford to segregate them (PROPERLY... i.e., air ventilation in smoking sections, etc.) then you should be allowed to. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 1689/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| ...Quebec WILL seperate if that happens. Even if the feds don't force it on you and your own elected provincial government does...Just out of pure anger...Seperation. No, but it is a mixed blessing. I'm an asthmatic and having smoke blown in my face while I'm doing heavy lifting at work sucks...balls. But I'm also a friend of many chain smokers who now have to stand outside in the freezing cold to get a butt. Really, there should just be common sense. |
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