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| 0 user currently in World Affairs / Debate. |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Do you think the elections are over? |
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kiwibonga Double metal axe Level: 27  Posts: 239/266 EXP: 106040 For next: 10119 Since: 03-15-04 From: Montreal, QC, Canada Since last post: 126 days Last activity: 3 days |
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| I... Am starting to get skeptical... There are just so many reports of vote fraud and machine inconsistencies... Look at this: http://kramerico.com/ohio.htm I lost the other page which had similar figures... But you get the picture... There were more votes counted than the number of people who were actually registered, but we're talking about actual voter turnouts above 100%... Highest one being in the 1000-2000% range... Also check out www.blackboxvoting.org Who will save the world? Ralph Nader to the rescue Anyways... Does anyone else feel that the election is far from being over? I'm actually very thrilled by all this... I wonder what's gonna happen, if it ever happens :x |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 2938/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Haha, every time I've seen you talk in irc, it's been about this. Is this all you've been doing all week?  Anyway, it's over kiwi. Just let it go. It's one. That's it. The end. Bush is the president, again. There's nothing you can do to change that. That's all she wrote. Finito. Fini. |
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Cymoro PATRICK DUFFY WILL LASER YOUR SOUL   Level: 67  Posts: 1479/2216 EXP: 2549743 For next: 43129 Since: 03-15-04 From: Cymoro Gaming Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| KERRY GAVE UP SHUT UP ITS OVER I'M NOT LISTENING LALALALALALALALALA Go away, I'm in my happy place, whre the elections don't exist for another 4 years. |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 2350/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Um... if Kerry already conceded Ohio, then doesn't that mean he like... gave up... and it doesn't matter what the results are? Kerry conceded the election, meaning, even if there was voter fraud (they talk about that stuff out here in Cali in every election, including minor ones... it's a big issue here), he's already given up. Accept Mr. Dumbass as your president for another term. |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 212/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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| Just because the RESULT isn't in doubt doesn't mean the litany of abnormalities, irregularities and anecdotes about malfunctioning voting machines should be ignored. Firstly, this crap needs to be sorted out - it's already put the result of one election into complete uncertain limbo. The margin for error of all the abnormalities and irregularites in 2000 in Florida was greater than the final official margin. No-one will ever be able to say 100% who won. Secondly, regardless of the outcome, every vote should be counted and recorded correctly. Does a vote count less just because it doesn't change the outcome? no, every vote counts. If this stuff doesn't get fixed, American democracy borders on a sham, a farce, and certainly an insult to voting Americans. If there's even a HINT that people - ANYONE - has tried to change the count to favour a candidate... this is a CRIME against the people and must be pursued. |
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get.  Level: 73  Posts: 791/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Arwon is absolutely correct. I've watched some of the things on sites like blackboxvoting well before the election and I was rather horrified at the way the diebold machines were being handled. The current problems come as absolutely no surprise to me -- I anticipated them. I know full well that Bush won, I know that Kerry conceded. THAT is actually no longer the issue. The issue is the security and lack of accuracy of voting machines. There have been concerns right up to the elections REGARDLESS of the result, this needs to be looked at, this needs to be all audited. This needs to be audited and things need to be sorted out SO IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN. EVERY vote should count, and every vote should count as exactly the same as what the voter ACTUALLY voted for. If it isn't, like Arwon said, then the voting systems, elections, are all a sham, a joke. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 2972/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| You know what's sad? We wouldn't be reading ANY of this if Kerry won. | |||
windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61  Posts: 389/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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That's because we wouldn't care if Bush cheated or the machines were faulty  . |
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 793/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Actually, we probably would be reading this either way. As I tried to point out with the links I posted, this has been a concern for a very long time. I've been hearing about faults in evoting, diebold machines, etc for a very very long time, in countries besides the US as well. I doubt the concerns over the accuracy of the voting machines would've just fizzled out because Kerry won. It's not conspiracy theory (although I'm sure the tinfoil hat crowd are lapping it up). The problems with voting machines are real. If they weren't real, then Governments wouldn't have rejected e-voting on the basis of these problems. A lot of the faults in this election wouldn't have swung things, but that's not the point -- the point is that there shouldn't be faults in the first place. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 2981/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Since when is voting fraud NOT a conspiracy? Especially when the accused is the current president himself?  |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 925/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| Maybe this thread wouldn't be here, but no doubt some group would be discussing it in terms of Kerry. It's the way politics works. | |||
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 794/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Actually, I was talking more about the faults than anything else.  Although that also brings up the security issues. The diebold machines' security and accuracy has also been being discussed for months and months leading up to the election. Black Box Voting at one stage said that a number of the machines were unpatched Windows computers, and insecure to the point that any individual that knew the phone number attached to the PC could've modified votes without even authenticating. If that really is the case, they should be looking at making things more secure. On the assumption that Black Box Voting were telling the truth, then that means that ANYBODY in the world -- even Osama bin Laden -- would've been able to modify votes. Even assuming that nobody did modify votes, that security hole needs to be patched, and methods need to be taken to secure those machines. Australia's voting machines are electronic, and the software used to run them is Open Source. We don't seem to be having as much trouble as the closed, proprietary diebold systems had in terms of security or accuracy. |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 407/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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| Question. Is it just me... or are there conspiracy theories no matter who wins?  |
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 796/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Probably. Still, this stuff was bought up well before the election, in nations besides the US too. Other nations have had problems, and others have rejected evoting entirely. So there is substance to this. Sure, just because this stuff is perfect Conspiracy Theory fodder, doesn't mean we shouldn't take it seriously and make sure that problems don't occur in the future... |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 1638/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| There are going to be nuts to say everything about anything. You know that lamp that you have in your bedroom? It emits a special form of radiation known as "X-Rays" and "UV-Rays" as the government researchers like to call them, which can not only damage your skin, but render you infertile! Frankly, the lack of paper trails on the electronic voting machines was a damned fool choice for the American electoral societies. Voting machines of any sort are going to have problems, and as it was said on John Stewart (curse me for quoting him) "These new voting machines take the inherit problems of a 17th century electoral system and couple it with the inaccountability of 21st century technology". |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35 Posts: 213/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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Originally posted by |+Legion+| Dude, what in God's holy hell are you talking about? There's ORDERS OF JESUS-SODDING MAGNITUDE between the entirely legitimate and realistic concerns over the irregularities of the US electoral systems and that stupid theory about the Pentagon. If you'll recall, in that thread, I was one of the people shouting down people over that idiocy. So let's not play that angle, shall we? There's been concerns over voting machines for years. There's been concerns over shifty electoral practises in different states and counties for years, counties passing laws and working the electoral rolls to help get the right outcome, people sending out mail designed to scare and confuse voters into thinking they'll get arrested if they show ID at a polling place, just to name a couple of examples off the top of my head. These are not things sore losers have made up in the last week. If this is sour grapes, you're just gloating andbeing obnoxious. And you know what, there would be talk like this if Kerry had won. On election day there were grumblings at places like Freerepublic about double registration and fake names. Republicans weren't happy about certain things either and if the result had have gone differently they would be screaming to high flurking heaven about liberal media white-washing the Democrats theft of the election. (edited by Arwon on 11-14-04 12:17 AM) (edited by Arwon on 11-14-04 12:19 AM) (edited by Arwon on 11-14-04 12:21 AM) |
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Dracoon Zelda The temp ban/forum ban bypasser! Level: 84  Posts: 1719/3727 EXP: 5514391 For next: 147561 Since: 03-25-04 From: At home Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| Uhhh yeah legion, in short, you were being a jackass by saying that. Of course evoting doesn't work, we have hackers that can do EVERYTHING! (At least now) Unless someone takes the time to make a good way of voting where everything will work perfectly then there is no way we can actually do anything about this. Wait... I have a solution...: They take 50 voters into a room at a time, they blind fold them, and then they do a hand count. Oh crap, the person counting can skip a few... hmm... guess it is impossible. Democracy can't work. It has to many flaws and a perfect democracy can't exsist, even though I actually think we are a republic still that is off topic. This is a problem that is signifcant, but if it helped Bush win, why would he do anything about it? |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 1643/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Perfection can't exist outside of God. Your point? |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 2984/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by Dracoon There's no need for flaming and/or trolling here. Ok thanks bye. |
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Apple Kodondo Level: 38 Posts: 546/594 EXP: 350163 For next: 20284 Since: 03-27-04 From: Washington. Since last post: 264 days Last activity: 152 days |
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| There has been KNOWN cheating in presidental elections as far back as the 1880's. I'm pretty sure they happened before than as well. Everyone praises JFK but guess how he won the presidency? He cheated. Dead people can't vote... unless they are voting democrat. Nixon knew of the voting frauds and you know what he did? Nothing. He sucked it up and continued on with his life. Nixon > You |
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