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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - Welcome to 1.93b3! |
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ErkDog Fuzz Ball Level: 47  Posts: 863/982 EXP: 752190 For next: 14013 Since: 03-15-04 From: Richmond, VA Since last post: 40 days Last activity: 19 days |
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| Sure it makes perfect sense Jesper... and that's becuase you need to modify the feed to not just say by blah by blah by blah.... If you have an e-mail subscription to a thread does it e-mail you every post ? NO it just says, Someone replied... go read it (link) and that's waht the RSS Feed for threads will do too.... The number of people who will actually read the threads in a news reader, vs the number of people who will use it simply as reporting (live bookmark, or just load the thread anyway) is alot less..... and I could give a shit less about bandwidth.... the entire collective of all the websites on my server use only 53 Gigs a month..... The thing I care about is Database Load, CPU Load.... Yeah, of course it takes less CPU to load the RSS Feed.... but you can have 10 people refreshing an RSS Feed once every 30 minutes, while they aren't even at their computer... I -never- close Thunderbird so it ALWAYS Refreshes... if I have RSS Feeds for 10 threads.... that's 10 thread loads every 30 minutes while I'm at work for 8 hours.... That's going to happen regardless.... if the output of the RSS is reporting only, the load is signifigantly less than if it's spitting entire posts at me.... The only thing the RSS Feed for a thread needs to be Title "Post # By User at Time" Then a link to the thread simple..... and doesn't load my server for shit..... The "Facts of War" are just as obvious there.... I'd rather have 10 RSS Loads every 30 minutes with "Title "Post # By User at Time" + 10 HTML Thread Loads than 10 RSS Loads every 30 minutes with full post data then 10 NewReply Loads If you were to calculate the CPU / Database Load for each case, you'd see clearly that the first example... would be far less CPU / DB Time than what you are wanting to do.... |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69  Posts: 1128/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Originally posted by ErkDogPrecisely, because e-mail subscription is only for notification. Part of what's good with stuff like RSS is that it won't have to send out email. Originally posted by ErkDogIt's what the non-content feeds will do, yes. Originally posted by ErkDogThe only thing surplus about making the feed contain the post is that it includes three more fields in one query. And there's the question about "conditional HTTP GET" too. With one not too hard extra query in the field, having a smart feed reader on the other end, you could see if we have new stuff from after [timestamp] and ONLY have it send out the feed at all in those cases. So it'll be even less activity, and even less CPU / Database effort than what you think I'm going to do. I told you this earlier, but I'm retelling it again, in case you forgot. Example: 11:00 Reader gets original feed 11:03 Poster posts 11:15 Reader gets feed because it's been updated 11:30 Reader checks but gets told that there's been no updates and gets no feed at all 11:45 The above 11:55 Reader edits original post 12:00 Reader gets feed because it's been updated etc. This isn't something I'm making up - it's entirely doable, and in fact most feed readers support this. |
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Cymoro PATRICK DUFFY WILL LASER YOUR SOUL   Level: 67  Posts: 1436/2216 EXP: 2549743 For next: 43129 Since: 03-15-04 From: Cymoro Gaming Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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What we have here is an inter-party conflict. All class modifiers are applied.Originally posted by ErkDog What a shame that we don't have it. |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 1130/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Originally posted by CymoroWe're about to.  Erk told me to add it in the last version but it didn't make it. I wanted to see that the new email registration would work first and foremost before we were to start on it. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 2705/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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I don't know about the rest of you, but I really don't want my email box flooded telling me about all new posts in a forum, thread, board, etc. I have a more efficient way. I.............go to the board using this hardware known as a browser. I'll explain it all later. It's up and coming technology here.  |
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Jizuko Jiz Is The Magic! This board has run out of mana and can no longer use The Magic Level: 51  Posts: 806/1191 EXP: 1004683 For next: 9255 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 230 days Last activity: 213 days |
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Originally posted by LegionBrowser is software |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 2706/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| I actually had to go up and check my post just to make sure you didn't change the quote. Just a slip-up on my part, I know it's software. | |||
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ErkDog Fuzz Ball Level: 47 Posts: 867/982 EXP: 752190 For next: 14013 Since: 03-15-04 From: Richmond, VA Since last post: 40 days Last activity: 19 days |
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| Actually Legion.... It won't be coded like PHPCrapBB and others... it will only send you ONE E-mail for a specific thread .... until you actually go READ that thread again..... This will work with the system we are going to be implemented where individual threads will be timestamped instead of entire forums..... Jesper.... What you describe is impossible..... an RSS / XML file is essentially plain text.... So it can't check and see if the file has new content without LOADING THE NEW FILE..... although, I guess it would work similar to Code 200 in HTML or whatever it is that says "content not changed" but either way, we will discuss it further.... no need to discuss it here.... but the RSS Feeds should be used as an alternative notification method.... not provide a facility for reading threads offline..... |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 1163/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Originally posted by ErkDogNo, what I describe has not only been in HTTP since 1.0 but is widely deployed. When the feed reader dispatches the request for the file, it sends along a special tag that it got last time around - in our case it'll be a timestamp. What we do is that we check if any new posts have arrived since after that timestamp - one simple query - and if they haven't, we'll send 304 Not Modified and in fact not send any data at all. It's very simple to implement, and it certainly is possible. We can see if the generated file will have new content by checking if the content it'll generate will be different from the old content generated (= same posts). "but the RSS Feeds should be used as an alternative notification method.... not provide a facility for reading threads offline....." That's your party line. Mine is that if we're going to build a building, we might as well finish off all the rooms in it. RSS is not just notification. I don't care if you just use it for notification. Others are using it for more. |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61  Posts: 182/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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Originally posted by Smallhacker Yes, Flood Controltm is eviltm. |
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Surlent サーレント Level: 49  Posts: 640/1077 EXP: 863920 For next: 19963 Since: 03-15-04 From: Tower of Lezard Valeth Since last post: 16 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Another suggestion I have might be to expand the reply window, when viewing the preview of a message. The "new" message window size is halved in comparison to a freshly opened newreply.php. When you are typing a longer text, you have to scroll a lot ... and I rarely type one-liners  Or how about also adding the thread history in the preview-version ? Sure it is not required, but if you want to participate in a discussion, preparing a larger text (probably using some HTML) you want to preview - you have to go back manually. And you even could see if somebody already posted, even while still being in newreply.php, so you could react quickly and add a small coment before submitting the post finally  |
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ErkDog Fuzz Ball Level: 47 Posts: 870/982 EXP: 752190 For next: 14013 Since: 03-15-04 From: Richmond, VA Since last post: 40 days Last activity: 19 days |
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| the RSS.php still has to generate the output before it can say OMG look this hasn't changed, so the CPU and SQL load is exactly the same regardless.... the only thing saved is the actual data transmittal... which I nor any other webhost cares about... CPU and SQL is what matters if you don't spit out content you don't even have to touch the posts_text table.... simple... |
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Xeolord - B l u e s - Power Metal > All Level: 81  Posts: 595/3418 EXP: 4884196 For next: 108653 Since: 03-15-04 From: Yeah Since last post: 15 hours Last activity: 15 hours |
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| Going with Surlent and his ideas here with replying and making threads and stuff, I really liked Ogre's "Post Options" that allowed you to check boxes to disable HTML, Smilies, && tags, and other stuff like that. I think that's a useful option to have when making big threads or something, or posting a large image that may not fit your layout, it would save time having to post the reply and then go back into your post and edit it. Just another idea.  |
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DarkSlaya POOOOOOOOOOOORN! Level: 88 Posts: 2379/4249 EXP: 6409254 For next: 241410 Since: 05-16-04 From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| And I second Xeogred's idea. I don't know how many time I wanted to disable HTML in a post. Sure |
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Zem You can be civil without being flowery, dipshits. Level: 49 Posts: 288/1107 EXP: 829398 For next: 54485 Since: 06-13-04 Since last post: 131 days Last activity: 131 days |
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| Oh yeah! That was another thing. The ability to disable auto-formatting (e.g. turning newlines into <br> tags) would be massively handy. For example, if you have a block of <pre> text, a newline becomes two newlines because it retains the break and puts in a <br> tag, so the only way to do properly preformatted text is to keep it all on one line and insert break tags yourself. Even more useful than posts, this would be massively handy in layouts, since in the current form you have to collapse all html onto one line to make it work, and the source becomes unreadable. A "disable auto-formatting" checkbox would make things much easier. Also, DarkSlaya: you can "disable" html yourself by typing < instead of < and > instead of >... but an option would be handy there too... |
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Lenophis Super Koopa Level: 44  Posts: 202/830 EXP: 584360 For next: 26925 Since: 03-15-04 From: Duluth, MN Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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| You guys are STILL arguing over this? Hmmm... "OMG! SOM1 RESPOND MY THRD! REED NOW!" Biggest waste of time I've ever seen, here's an idea... get rid of it perhaps? It's a waste of bandwidth over a trivial issue... My take... |
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Zem You can be civil without being flowery, dipshits. Level: 49 Posts: 290/1107 EXP: 829398 For next: 54485 Since: 06-13-04 Since last post: 131 days Last activity: 131 days |
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| I'm sure Jesper and ErkDog are already in the process of kissing and making up thanks to your counseling skills. |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 187/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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| So... are the RSS feeds going to be fixed before the next release, as they didn't work in this one? |
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ErkDog Fuzz Ball Level: 47 Posts: 872/982 EXP: 752190 For next: 14013 Since: 03-15-04 From: Richmond, VA Since last post: 40 days Last activity: 19 days |
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| it's quite possible they could be hotfixed before next full release... but, they do work, just not uber correctly.... lol mostly because each entry in the RSS feed needs to have a unique identifier,.... which it doesn't right now.... as far as the actual RSS Feeds, basically I agreed to let Jesper do whatever, and if it results in a signifigant increase in used resources, someone will make reparations |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 1172/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Originally posted by ErkDogI'm convinced that it will lead to the same or probably less resources used; the thing is that you'd be watching your favorite threads with RSS and RSS only. Since an RSS feed is smaller than thread.php and doesn't even send the same thing over and over (if it's going to be identical output to last time, it just doesn't send anything and tells you that), there's no way it's going to end up using more resources, unless you're using the HTML board AND the RSS feed. (If we're that concerned we might as well just force everyone on 70 posts per page and only allow for one refresh of the same page every five minutes. If everyone started loading every page on the board twice, noone would complain. It's just because it's a new feature.) "Biggest waste of time I've ever seen, here's an idea... get rid of it perhaps? It's a waste of bandwidth over a trivial issue... My take..." Here's my take: If you don't use it, and it's not forced upon you, there's no need to bitch at all. If I absolutely could not get any disease whatsoever ever, would I ask people to tear down the hospitals? No. Do you see people with layouts off wanting to shut down Modern Art because of the number of threads announcing new layouts? No. Stop ruining things for those who do use them. Disabling formatting is a big issue. We're working out related bugs in Edit User and such pages. When we're done figuring out what it's doing wrong, we'll almost certainly implement such stuff for posting as we'll know how to tackle the issue. |
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