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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - Welcome to 1.93b3! |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69  Posts: 1119/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Originally posted by Kitten YifferYes. Go find out the "???" step for us though.  |
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Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143  Posts: 4577/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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ErkDog Fuzz Ball Level: 47  Posts: 858/982 EXP: 752190 For next: 14013 Since: 03-15-04 From: Richmond, VA Since last post: 40 days Last activity: 19 days |
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| Jesper.... Because people will use the full content feeds always, and not use the reporting feeds.... then they will end up loading the thread anyway.... "You pretty much just confirmed that you're having a problem with the way most people use RSS" My problem with RSS is that it's not designed for heavily updated content from MULTIPLE Sources like threads.... if I had my Druthers like I said there would be NO RSS Feeds... they are not necessary.... No other forum any of these people go to have RSS Feeds.... so they should be happy with Reporting RSS Feeds since they are too stupid to look at NEW Icons or receive e-mails.... I do NOT want to provide content in RSS Feeds for threads..... simple.... it's an online message board..... go online and read the fucking threads..... it's not an online system for dumping posts to your computer for no reason whatsoever because thread.php does that already. If you want me to tell you when to load thread.php fine... but I'm not sending thread.php to your computer..... simple..... |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 4822/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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It wasted both, Kitten Yiffer. ZTNet was NOT happy about having 500-600MB of data being searched each time it was used.  |
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Yarx Keese That Zelda Fanatic i am a wootest! Danicess Snuggle Slave! Fragapalooza! RTFM! Level: 20  Posts: 117/133 EXP: 37485 For next: 4954 Since: 03-15-04 From: Edmonton Since last post: 132 days Last activity: 18 days |
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| I had just posted a comment in the AB programming forums but I'll just copy it here. So why are you guys using RSS 0.3 and not 0.9 or 0.91? I tried opening the feeds, but my browser doesn't even recognize the fact that they are RSS feeds. Let alone the fact that they are just XML, it tries to download them. While on the flip side it recognised feeds from other sites fine. Slashdot for example, and even most blogs. I think you guys are missing a declaration in the header of the file or something of that nature to signal to the browser that the file it's grabbing is an RSS feed or at least an XML document. Although, I do have one sauggestion. Move the "close" and "sticky" checkboxes away from the submit button. They are really too close especially considering some themes are so close to being mono-color when it comes to border/background, you can't see the border between the buttons and the text for the checkboxes when creating a new thread or post. Maybe just move them to the top? Edit: Also, The email hiding feature currently remports the wrong status I believ.e so far everyone I have checked who has their email set says "email withheld from non-staff users". Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that mean only staff can see it? Because mine is current set to anyone logged in, and I suspect others' is are as well. Might want to check that. (edited by Yarx on 10-29-04 01:11 AM) |
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Xkeeper The required libraries have not been defined. Level: NAN  Posts: -3135/-863 EXP: NAN For next: 0 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: -753366 sec. |
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| I was laying in bed and this thread came to mind. I can't resist laughing at you guys arguing over something so pointless as RSS feeds. Seriously, it's a message board for god sakes. |
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knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 809/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by XkeeperFunny to hear YOU say that. |
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ErkDog Fuzz Ball Level: 47 Posts: 860/982 EXP: 752190 For next: 14013 Since: 03-15-04 From: Richmond, VA Since last post: 40 days Last activity: 19 days |
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| Yarz, Jesper was supposed to fix the status thing... as far as the close / stick buttons yeah I reported that as well I told jesper to move them below the submit button as in new reply..... he broke the ability to Tab + Spacebar / Enter to post |
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Zem You can be civil without being flowery, dipshits. Level: 49 Posts: 249/1107 EXP: 829398 For next: 54485 Since: 06-13-04 Since last post: 131 days Last activity: 131 days |
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Originally posted by JesperOriginally posted by Kitten YifferYes. Go find out the "???" step for us though. ... Took me a moment to get the south park reference. =( I have a suggestion! Update some forum descriptions. For example, apparently Femine is "still the boss" of Anya and Christi's corner. And then there are the classic yet oddly worded descriptions like "In this world, there are languages that cannot be spoken. These languages are C, VB, Java, Cobol, HTML, PHP and many others. So ... talk about programming here!" EDIT: Oh yeah, and I'm sure Jesper would back this as well - it wouldn't take too much effort (a few regular expressions maybe) to make the html much more shiny and happy by doing things like adding quotes around attributes, and other strange "compliances." Tidy has a lot of complaints too, like starting nonstandard <nobr> tags and then not ending them. Or not ending <td> tags. Lots of   without the terminating semicolon. And other nits. Which I pick. (edited by Inspector Fuckup on 10-29-04 08:44 AM) |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 1121/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Originally posted by ErkDogWhich we're not providing. One RSS feed is equal to on forum and the listing of threads therein or one thread and the (soon optional) listing of posts therein. Simple. It's not designed for heavily updated content from multiple sources because people don't want to subscribe to ALL new threads in, say, Craziness Domain. Or all forums. Originally posted by ErkDogEveryone can go to Reuters, or the NY Times. A select few can subscribe to their RSS feeds - it benefits them in that they won't have to actively look thru the web sites, and it benefits the sites because they conserve bandwidth. Even one bloated RSS feed is often several times lighter than the corresponding web page listing the same article. And calling people stupid just because they dislike one option is just abusive. It should be up to us to cater for the people's opinion and present interesting alternatives and new ways to read content and be notified of new content. The HTML board provides a compelling experience for reading when online, while notification only works if you actively use the Mark forums read system and even then not off the board. RSS complements this by enabling downloading thread contents if you're watching a few set threads (which is by definition more offline friendly but does not mean that it can't be useful to those who browse online as well), and providing notification. Originally posted by ErkDogAs opposed to going online, downloading the lower size feeds, disconnecting and reading the fucking threads offline, saving bandwidth for you and money for the dialup user? Or getting constantly notified online for the broadband user? Originally posted by ErkDogA feed download is as much of a download as browsing is. The only thing different is that a user can ask for just the content, and that the user doesn't gain access to edit profile and such. Originally posted by YarxWe're using Atom 0.3 (not any version of RSS - I guess we're contributing to the confusion ourselves). We're even sending the correct Content-Type MIME headers, which is why your browser (as does mine) tries to download them - most feed readers don't register for MIME types and so it doesn't know what to do. The concrete versions for using Atom instead of RSS is that RSS 2.0 does not offer a standard, viable and consistent way to specify the full content, or whether it's HTML or not, or whether it's already escaped, and so on. We'll definitely use RSS 2.0/0.91 for the link only forum feeds soon to come. Atom is built for full content. RSS 2.0/0.91 is built for short snippets. Simple as that. Originally posted by YarxI'm not quite sure at all where to stick the checkboxes actually. I'm recognize that they shouldn't break tab+space - I use that a lot myself actually (tab+enter should submit regardless). Originally posted by YarxFixed in development version. I thought I told Erk to upload that. Xkeeper: Go ahead and laugh if you want. Remember those awful years on dialup? Those just might have been more enjoyable if what we're doing right now was available back then. For what it's worth, I've seen other forums with feeds, and it wouldn't matter if we were the first. Just because noone's yet invented a cure for AIDS it doesn't mean it's not needed or could make people happy. In closing... noone's forcing any of you to use any of this. You can just go about using the board like you always did. But if you actively oppose something that has large documented benefit when working properly on the basis that "Hey, I don't use it" or "Hey, I want people to download the larger HTML version instead" or "Hey, I don't use it for that purpose myself so I don't see why anyone else should be given a choice" or even "Hey, I'm using my email for much the same purposes, so everyone else must be stupid", you're just an asshat. (edited by Jesper on 10-29-04 01:38 PM) |
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Surlent サーレント Level: 49  Posts: 633/1077 EXP: 863920 For next: 19963 Since: 03-15-04 From: Tower of Lezard Valeth Since last post: 16 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Btw, the idea of hiding email addresses is good - but there is imood. Everyone who uses it, somehow presents his/her address - right click an imood image and view its properties. So people really wanting to hide their email addresses from non-logged in people or regular users should take out their address  |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 4834/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| That and I somehow doubt EVERYONE is going to go ahead and use the RSS feature. So Erk has nothing to worry about, bandwidth-wise or whatever. | |||
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 1880/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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 If you'll excuse me, I've got some layouts to block and an RSS reader to download.  |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 2702/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by knuckOriginally posted by XkeeperFunny to hear YOU say that.  Holy fuck knuck, you so beat me to that. Damn you! Damn you! I'm putting that in my bio. |
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Yoshi Dude XKEEPER STOLE MY CAR KEYS Level: 79  Posts: 1649/3271 EXP: 4572680 For next: 6787 Since: 03-15-04 From: give me a number folks. Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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I absolutely love you guys.  |
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ErkDog Fuzz Ball Level: 47 Posts: 861/982 EXP: 752190 For next: 14013 Since: 03-15-04 From: Richmond, VA Since last post: 40 days Last activity: 19 days |
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| Jesper.... If they download the fucking content to a news reader... if they want to reply, they have to load the fucking thread anyway and then reply... so they might as well just load it to begin with... furthermore....if you put a fucking link in the feeds for them to reply to the post, that just makes it that fucking bigger.... I told you when you FIRST started doing the RSS shit, that it should be minimalized and used as a reporting system.... most people won't even use a goddamn news reader, and will just use a live bookmark... so spitting out the content is 100% pointless and puts extra load on my server, or anyone else's server for that mattter who uses the RSS feeds... for NO reason whatsoever.... Like I said, the New Icon's and E-Mail should be more than adequate for letting people know they need to read a thread..... You wanted to screw w/ the RSS crap, so I said fine, do it as a reporting system, I said that from friggin inception... conception... and all througout design... but you just did the fucking content anyway.... regardless of the fact that you agreed with me that we would do it as a reporting system.... |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 4845/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Um... Fair warning. If you guys are going to argue about the RSS stuff and how it should be done, do it outside the board rather than get into a slugfest right here. | |||
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Zem You can be civil without being flowery, dipshits. Level: 49 Posts: 254/1107 EXP: 829398 For next: 54485 Since: 06-13-04 Since last post: 131 days Last activity: 131 days |
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Originally posted by ColleenYou just live to stifle entertainment, don't you? =( |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69 Posts: 1123/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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Originally posted by ErkDogI agreed with you that it was going to be a reporting system - I didn't agree with you that it was SOLELY going to be a reporting system. What I had done were forum feeds, which did not include content. Everyone using RSS I spoke to about the concept of RSS for forums basically said the same thing: You had better have feeds for the threads too, then. Feeds for forums but not for threads does not make sense if we're going to cater to the kind of people that use RSS anyway. And feeds for threads are impossible without content. A thread is solely content. If we took out the posts, or even shortened them down, all we'd see would be "Legion, Anya, Erk, Anya, Legion, Kitten Yiffer, Anya, Kitten Yiffer, Millenium Neko, Anya [..]". It wouldn't make sense. As for the Live Bookmark issue, the only kind of feed that would make any kind of sense to have as a Live Bookmark would be a Forum feed. "Legion, Anya, Erk, Anya, Legion, Kitten Yiffer [..]" wouldn't make more sense just because it's a Live Bookmark. "most people won't even use a goddamn news reader, and will just use a live bookmark... so spitting out the content is 100% pointless and puts extra load on my server, or anyone else's server for that mattter who uses the RSS feeds... for NO reason whatsoever...." For the reasons just mentioned above, the only feed that makes sense to use as a live bookmark does not include content. And if noone uses a news reader, noone will load any thread feeds, meaning no extra load on your server. The full content feeds also include a Quote link for every post, which is effectively a reply link. If you're meaning bandwidth, I've calculated some simple stats on bandwidth. The gist of it is that a medium-sized thread, when counting the page itself and theme images (conveniently ignoring both the buttons at the bottom and the stats to the left, often including stats graphics and the workhorse numgfx.php file) is 6.6 to 10 times bigger than the 'full content feed'. Speaking of CPU time, a simple measure which is right a lot of the time is looking for the often time and process power consuming SQL queries and their aftermath: thread.php, the ordinary thread view, contains 60 matches for "mysql_", a prefix of all SQL related functions; rss-thread.php, the Atom Feed generator, contains 8 matches. Not content with that, I added a hack to the development version of rss-thread.php asking for it to output its "rendered in n seconds" string. On a thread on the Development board, thread.php reported "Page rendered in 0.096 seconds." and rss-thread.php reported "Page rendered in 0.033 seconds.". Less than a third of the effort is needed to generate the feed as opposed to the normal version. You have lost the facts war. Your only reason for not wanting full content feeds is simply personal opinion, nevermind that it flies in the face of how most people use RSS and what would make sense for them. I think we should instead cater to the personal opinion and common sense of the RSS users of this board, that say that we might as well not use RSS if we do not have thread feeds, and that it's pointless to go to the thread page and continiously reload if your feed reader does that for you (meaning that they won't still reload the HTML versions, so it'll actually save on traffic). |
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Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143 Posts: 4616/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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| I guess I |
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