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2 users currently in General Chat:  Dark Vampriel |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - I don't know my own government anymore (pentagon crash controversy) |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 672/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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Originally posted by Kitten YifferOriginally posted by TaraleExactly, US goverment hadn't been known for telling the truth all the time. The same with many goverments infact. I what was being inferred was that the missile came from the U.S., i.e. it was intentional and further blamed upon the arabs. |
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Daemon_nick Red Goomba Level: 11  Posts: 25/40 EXP: 5782 For next: 203 Since: 05-29-04 From: The Realm of Eternal Darkness Since last post: 36 days Last activity: 36 days |
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Originally posted by MathOnNapkinsOriginally posted by Kitten YifferOriginally posted by TaraleExactly, US goverment hadn't been known for telling the truth all the time. The same with many goverments infact. i would not be suprised if that was what happened, I live in Canada, so the US governing system is not my specialty, but e few years ago, there was a rash of oil field bombings in Alberta, that got blamed on one man (will try to find a link later) It turns out, that a few of the bombings that got more press coverage were blamed on him aswell, but was rumoured to have been staged by the police/law enforcement in order to infiltrate the supposed "group of bombers" so if Canadian law enforcement can supposedly do it, i would not be suprised if a large governing body can do it as well, even if it is in a large, heavily populated city |
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Raistlin the Red Robed Paragoomba Level: 15  Posts: 72/76 EXP: 14064 For next: 2320 Since: 08-08-04 From: Fort Hood, Texas Since last post: 362 days Last activity: 318 days |
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| That could be a possibilty. I haven't heard about any number of causalities, nor did I see any pics from the media on the pentagon. HOWEVER, the world trade center was blasted all over the place. |
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 1839/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Some interesting points, alright. Why did they take the films? (If I were those guys I'd have hidden a copy.  ) When they were quoting people who said it sounded like a missile, they played a 'whoosh' sound. Was that the sound the supposed plane really made? Because that is definetely the sound of a missile. I've been on and around dozens of planes, I know what they sound like.  Personally, I don't believe that terrorists really did crash a plane into the Pentagon. I'm not saying I don't believe they were involved... I figure one of two things happened: -The US government did it themselves, for an excuse to fight Iraq. This is supported by the fact that Iraq has oil and the US needs it, and of course the all-too-convenient outcome for the government. Thousands of Jews who worked in the towers stayed home, explain that? The towers weren't really an important government building, the part of the Pentagon that got destroyed was empty, and the plane bound for the white house didn't make it there. No loss to them. -Terrorists did hijack planes and fly them into the towers and send another toward the white house, but not the Pentagon. Instead, they were able to aquire or take control of either a US military plane or a missile, and used that to attack the Pentagon. The government tried to cover this up by claiming it was a fourth plane, because there would be mass panic if people knew that terrorists had been able to use their own defenses against them. (What's scarier, a terrorist hijacking a plane to use as a bomb, or a terrorist remote-controlling US missiles and/or having access to military jets?) I also wonder about the date... It happened on 9/11, and a lot of people would have been calling 911. Interesting coincidence, if it is one. |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 180/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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| I'm not loading a 3 meg video. But. There was a plane that left the airport, it was full of people. Those people are all dead. A plane was seen flying low and towards the Pentagon. Then it hit the Pentagon. SNOPES TO THE RESCUE A plane hit the Pentagon just like two hit the world Trade Centre and one crashed in a field. That's the end of the story. (edited by Arwon on 10-23-04 02:03 AM) |
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kiwibonga Double metal axe Level: 27  Posts: 229/266 EXP: 106040 For next: 10119 Since: 03-15-04 From: Montreal, QC, Canada Since last post: 126 days Last activity: 3 days |
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| Let's be honest here, nobody knows what happened on 9/11. For all you know the airplanes could have landed in a secret US military base and have been replaced with radio controlled planes to crash in the twin towers and the pentagon. The passengers and crew would have been imprisoned, or put to death. The US could have blamed the attacks on anyone in the world with an Arab sounding name, and picked any country to attack in retaliation. Either way, whether a plane or a missile or just a bomb blew up the Pentagon, it doesn't matter... It all comes down to... "We'll never know for sure" -- And you know what's good about that? It made more and more people realize that the government and the media can make millions of people believe anything. It doesn't matter if Bush and the media were 100% truthful throughout the years, there's 2 things we have to keep in mind: Anyone in the world can wake up one day and decide to blow something up to kill people, and the government can hide anything from us, because they are the source of all "top secret" information. So please, don't either say "A plane hit the pentagon" or "the government is hiding it from us" -- Anything could have been fabricated. You don't know, I don't know. |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35 Posts: 181/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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| Um, no, I've gotta call bullshit on that. People SAW planes hit these things. A coverup of this magnitude would have to have had so many people from all walks of life involved that it would be absurd and impossible. Police, fire brigades, military staff of all levels, news reporters, people in the streets of New York and Washington DC, airline staff, families and friends of all these groups, not to mention those of the dead. We're talking thousands upon thousands of people here. People don't work like that, they're not that disciplined or willfully nefarious in the numbers we are talking here. This isn't a bloody movie. To grant equality between conspiracy theories this loopy, and the fairly obvious accepted reality of the situation, is dishonest and perhaps even slightly insane. Sometimes bad things happen. Let's get some perspective here. Governments are bastards, full of petty ambitions, personality conflicts, factional brawling, greed, power-lust, and very often wilful indifference to the people they're supposed to be governing. They are not, however, evil plotting masterminds. Also, this really should be in our new politics forum. (edited by Arwon on 10-23-04 09:47 AM) (edited by Arwon on 10-23-04 09:48 AM) (edited by Arwon on 10-23-04 09:56 AM) |
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kiwibonga Double metal axe Level: 27 Posts: 230/266 EXP: 106040 For next: 10119 Since: 03-15-04 From: Montreal, QC, Canada Since last post: 126 days Last activity: 3 days |
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Originally posted by Arwon The truth is, there were very little testimonies of witnesses... If you want to go by what the people saw, people said they heard a sound that had nothing to do with a plane, someone said it wasn't an american airlines plane, etc... I agree that saying missiles hit the twin towers and not planes would be absurd, but in Washington DC... Not so absurd... I was in new york on that day, and the first news reports said that there was a bomb attack on the pentagon. It took them one hour to come to the conclusion that it was another hijacked plane... Everything happened so fast, very little people saw the plane/missile/bomb/whatever that thing was... But I was just making examples, what I'm saying is that just because something is on the news doesn't make it true, same thing goes for what the government says. Example: weapons of mass destruction. |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35 Posts: 184/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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| Read the Snopes article. There's photos. Photos containing wreckage. Snopes is in the business of debunking absurd conspiracy theories, and this it debunks thoroughly. Like I said, let's get some perspective. Govenrments lie and make shit up, but there's a huge difference between claiming non-existant weapons of mass destructionexist half-way around the world in a secretive regime... and covering up involvement in an explosion/crash in YOUR OWN MILITARY HEADQUARTERS in YOUR OWN CAPITAL CITY. What I don't get is why. Why do people believe there was a cover-up about the Pentagon crash? What would anyone have to gain? We know four planes were hijacked, we know they hit other places that day. What would the US government or whoeverthefuck else have to gain by twisting this around, or, as some people say, causing it? And that last paragraph? I'm not brainless and naive and I don't just take whatever the news says as truth, surely I've shown that much in my posts here... so please don't patronise me like that. "Anything can be faked" is a nice piece of relativist zen but it's just not really true. Yes, you can't know anytihng absolutely 100% for sure, but you can get so damn close that it doesn't matter. Jacques Derrida is dead, after all, and we pretty much know that for sure. (That was somewhat tongue in cheek, but he's an interesting example) What I'm saying is that there are different levels of "believability" and doubt and "fakability" ... and that a plane hit the Pentagon on September 11, 2001 is pretty much at the far end of that spectrum for any reasonable observer. There is no parallel between non-existant weapons of mass destruction and a non-existant Flight 77 crash into the Pentagon. We're talking about probably the most public, the most covered and the most analysed event ever to occur on this planet. You simply CAN'T fake or cover up something of this magnitude. (edited by Arwon on 10-24-04 08:45 AM) |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 1531/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| AMERICA...FUCK YEAH! (edited by Ziffski on 10-24-04 12:53 PM) |
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kiwibonga Double metal axe Level: 27 Posts: 232/266 EXP: 106040 For next: 10119 Since: 03-15-04 From: Montreal, QC, Canada Since last post: 126 days Last activity: 3 days |
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Originally posted by Arwon Well, I already saw the snopes article in the past, but I also saw a lot of pages that compare the pentagon crash to other plane crashes... Take the concorde crash for example... they found debris all over the place, several kilometers away from the crash, and this is when the plane was taking off... The smoke in the pentagon security videos is black, just like explosives, not like kerosene, and the object wihich hit the pentagon is very small and blurred, but it certainly doesn't look anything like an airliner... There's just too many things that are fishy to completely believe all that happened... They're talking about a missile impact, which is much more plausible given the circumstances... As for the government, they never addressed any of the conspiracy theories. They had come to their conclusions on september 12 and stuck with them until the end... Which doesn't seem all that reasonable. Now I'm not saying that I think the government is lying, but there sure are a lot of doubts in everyone's minds as to what really happened on that day... It's not really relevant to our every day life, but out of curiosity, I really want to know what exactly happened, what was hidden, what wasn't hidden... Believing every conspiracy theory would be dumb, but to the government's version of the facts, I can only say "Not enough information" (edited by kiwibonga on 10-27-04 05:29 PM) |
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BookReader Ninji Level: 25  Posts: 172/232 EXP: 86317 For next: 3303 Since: 03-15-04 From: Albuquerque, New Mexico (Land of Disenchantment) Since last post: 22 days Last activity: 2 days |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 2687/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| I'm sure there's probably stuff we don't know about, but this is taking it to an extreme. I'm sure that whatever we know isn't all that interesting and shocking. Oh, and I know for a fact that that one plane was shot out of the sky. Being in the Air Force has it's perks. Of course, it's not a big secret. Everyone pretty much knows it happened. It's not a big deal either way. It was the right thing to do. |
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kiwibonga Double metal axe Level: 27 Posts: 233/266 EXP: 106040 For next: 10119 Since: 03-15-04 From: Montreal, QC, Canada Since last post: 126 days Last activity: 3 days |
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| http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=941 "Two men who worked extensively in the wreckage of the World Trade Center claim they helped federal agents find three of the four |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - I don't know my own government anymore (pentagon crash controversy) |
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