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2 users currently in General Chat:  Dark Vampriel |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - My opinion |
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Silvershield Slime Level: 30 Posts: 292/345 EXP: 153029 For next: 12840 Since: 04-11-04 From: New Jersey Since last post: 60 days Last activity: 6 hours |
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| I write now as a reaction to the recent banning of Glenn. I've never held any significant bond to him - indeed, he's always been somewhat unnoteworthy in my eyes - but his thoughts so closely mirrored my own that I cannot hold back any longer. Glenn's feelings in regards to the board's hierarchy are thoughtful and, as I see it, dead-on true. His methods of disseminating those feelings to the general populace certainly differ from my own preferred ways, though I admire his nerve. Before I begin what could become a lengthy essay, I ask that any person with the power to close this thread (and everyone else who comes across it, for that matter) at least reads what I have to say. I am a civil person presenting a civil query; it is the mark of a closed-minded and ultimately inadequate leader to ignore a legitimate concern with little more than a childish, dismissive remark. I have never been banned at Acmlm's Board, but if this post leads to such a thing transpiring, I'd at least like to know that my plea was heard; whether it makes a tangible impact is something I can only hope for. I arrived here over a year ago. The exact timeframe is unimportant, but know that I have been around long enough to remember better times. My impetus for registering and discontinuing my previous habit of reading the board over the shoulder of a friend was a perceived element of Acmlm's that I had not seen elsewhere: the presence of involved, down-to-earth, caring leaders who had no qualms about deigning to involve themselves with the general population. Now, it would be profoundly false to state that moderators no longer post in "normal" threads. That is not what I speak of. In those days, though, it was near-impossible to distinguish between a member and a higher-up by merely reading a post's text. They communicated and interacted as peers, even when the color of their respective user names indicated otherwise. Not to generalize, because many (perhaps most) of this board's authorities remain unchanged, but the overwhelming attitude is not the same. Certainly, a leader needs to firmly deflect potential threats to the community, but the power to do that is the same power that can be used under other circumstances. In terms of 1s and 0s, locking a spammer's thread is just the same as closing down a legitimate - but critical - thread. I am aware that Acmlm's is a private gathering place, and one is not bound to remain here any longer than it takes to type an alternate web address. Likewise, considering the status of "private," freedom of speech is a notion that is entirely absent. Legally, I have no rights for my duration at this board. But lack of a legally binding system is not synonymous with the lack of a humane system of courtesy. You as a moderator or administrator may have the power to lord over the lesser members of this community as far as controlling the discussion, but such power implies no superiority in any other respect. Maybe you are a worthy leader and maybe you simply have ties with a higher-up - I make no judgment here - but, either way, you are no more divine than I am. That is, we are all people. You can exercise administrative powers in the interests of this board's future, but to exude an attitude of superiority in all matters is disgusting for someone like myself to endure. I offer a personal guarantee that, if our leaders practiced the simple courtesy and respect that every human being inherently owes to every other, this board would be a more pleasant place to visit. Perhaps it is dramatic and makes you feel powerful when you make a terse, insulting, self-proud comment and then instantly shut down a thread that does not meet your "standards," but it reflects poorly on your character and self-control. I make no assumptions about who you are in your everyday life, but we are all equals when this screen and keyboard are removed. You superiority begins and ends with the color of you screenname on an Internet message board. When you insult someone on that message board, you insult an honest-to-goodness, flesh and bones human being. Every person you call "stupid" or insult is a person that feels and reacts. Your status does not include some inherent right to tyranically stomp all over the inhabitants of this community. Administators and moderators, I know that your roles at Acmlm's include responsibility and stress. I do not ask you to be saccharine and ultra-friendly to repeat offenders and those who aim to disrupt the peace. But to reward simple ignorance - note that I say "ignorance" and not "stupidity" - with scorn and immature name-calling causes me to wonder who places people in power here, and what the requirements are. You can do your job quite well without tossing personal attacks whenever the opportunity arises. Repay ignorance with understanding, mischief with stern yet civil justice, and if you cannot, you have no business in a position of power. Agree, disagree, or abstain from either; I do not care whether I am loved or hated for this soliloquy, only that I am heard. If this thread is allowed to remain open, I would love nothing more than to discuss the current state of Acmlm's Board, and where it is headed. Otherwise, close it and ban me. I more or less expect that course, though I do not wish to leave this place. |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 2857/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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I'll read that tomorrow when I'm not so tired.  I wouldn't worry about a ban though. |
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The SomerZ Summer, yay! Level: 45  Posts: 451/862 EXP: 618182 For next: 41982 Since: 03-15-04 From: Norway Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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| Hm, as a moderator, I must say I don't feel at home with your description of the staff. Of course, I missed Glenn's ban, since I've been in Oslo for an IELTS-test in the past days. Still, I don't see the staffers as mad with power, or however you want to put it. Sure, some may sometimes be overdoing their closes a little, but this doesn't happen too often. | |||
Havoks Red Koopa Level: 19  Posts: 74/121 EXP: 32533 For next: 3244 Since: 03-15-04 From: Toronto Canada Since last post: 27 days Last activity: 26 days |
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| I've always wanted to ask; what's with the vocabulary? Did you grow up with nothing else to read but a dictionary? You've written that way since you started on this board and that was when you were what, 15? I hope you don't talk like that in person. | |||
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Valcion YOU WA SHOCK Level: 50  Posts: 352/1139 EXP: 939607 For next: 7710 Since: 03-15-04 From: internets. Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| You try handling these people then and have you not lose your cool. (edited by Valcion on 07-18-04 04:18 AM) |
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NightHawk Bob-Omb Level: 39  Posts: 397/621 EXP: 374743 For next: 30028 Since: 03-26-04 From: Switzerland Since last post: 432 days Last activity: 339 days |
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| I think Glenn was banned because of his general attitude -- not because of any problems inherent to the staff. I mean, seriously... telling a mod or admin to "fuck off" isn't exactly a bright idea.  As a relative newbie though, I don't really think the staff here is that bad... it's much better here than at most other boards I've visited (there are only a handful of boards that I consider to have better staff, but they're specialized and don't allow off-topic discussions, so it's pretty easy for them). |
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Apple Kodondo Level: 38 Posts: 218/594 EXP: 350163 For next: 20284 Since: 03-27-04 From: Washington. Since last post: 264 days Last activity: 152 days |
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| This forum does have more bannings a week than everyother forum I visited have had since their creation combined. I notice the staff here is alot more harsh. Threads that are bumped are instantly closed. I posted in a topic that was 13 days old, still on the first page of the forum on defualt and it was closed and I got a warning for bumping. This was on the old forum and it came across as a little too harsh. I can understand if there was another topic on it, or if it was on the second or third page but it wasn't. Alot of the closing of bumped topics don't deserved to be closed. The bump is usually two weeks old, but the topic hasn't been brought up again. So whats the big deal? If you bumped a birthday thread, a noobie thread, or a thread that was had a specific purpose with time (This is my 3rd year here, etc) than it makes perfect sense but when it comes to movies and videogames you people really need to calm down. Glenn deserved his banning, he started out as a collective indivual that seemed he had something decent to offer to the community but reading his last 10 posts, he derserved his banning. No other way of putting it. |
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Surlent サーレント Level: 49  Posts: 448/1077 EXP: 863920 For next: 19963 Since: 03-15-04 From: Tower of Lezard Valeth Since last post: 16 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| There were other people banned for insulting the board staff before If critisized in a normal way, any problems with certain staff members could be solved openly in a calm manner or with a PN to the person in a friendly (!) way, but something like "omfg, you moron, suck my dick" and so on, I think, a ban is just the right solution. I am moderating a single forum, okay that's no comparison with an RPG Maker and a ROM hacking forum, but as for Apple's mentioned rules we have one, like the thread creator may bump his/her thread(s) with a certain reason, it doesn't play a role how old that topic is. I think the bumping rule should be extended to at least one month; so nobody bothers to create the 78356789345th "What's youer favourite Mario game ?" thread in future (okay, it cannot be prevented, but it cuts down these repetitive threads in general ).Personally I have no problem with the staff here, since I never got a warning or ban (it also would be funny though  ). Except this small bumping attitude everything is fine (an imho too short time period); what about a ROM hacker who wants to bump his large thread with lots of data, after he didn't find after a long time, say two months. Is this not better than to create a new one ?I'm not active enough to comment on all staff members individually |
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Sofie Level: 52 Posts: 568/1210 EXP: 1028812 For next: 55028 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 187 days Last activity: 279 days |
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Originally posted by Apple And according to me, this is why he got banned, and you (Silvershield) won't be banned. I agree that Valcion could've just closed it without the insult, but Glenn could've excersised some common courtesy aswell. It goes both ways, both the bad and the good. I can actually speak for both ways, as I'm a normal user, and I live with Jizuko, and believe me, I'm still glad I'm just that awful pink color  |
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Jarukoth  IRRATIONAL EXUBERENCE!!1! Level: 79  Posts: 1396/3194 EXP: 4402011 For next: 177456 Since: 03-17-04 From: New Jersey, U.S.A. Shoes: Yes. Since last post: 8 days Last activity: 1 day |
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Originally posted by Havoks No, he doesn't. He's just reeeeal elequent. But try being in class with him... Anyway, as far Glenn's banning goes, I agree that he should have been banned, but some of the staff (one in particular in mind, name withheld), and users in general has been much harsher and insulting than usual. I found myself wondering why myself. Oh, and on the off chance Silvershield DOES get banned, expect to hear from me... |
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Apple Kodondo Level: 38 Posts: 222/594 EXP: 350163 For next: 20284 Since: 03-27-04 From: Washington. Since last post: 264 days Last activity: 152 days |
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Originally posted by JarukothOh, and on the off chance Silvershield DOES get banned, expect to hear from me... People don't get banned for stating opinions intelligently. Its when they feel they need to use massive profanty and throw insults every other sentence does speaking your opinion gets you banned. |
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Jesper Busy, busy, busy. Level: 69  Posts: 555/2390 EXP: 2856000 For next: 13743 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden. Since last post: 176 days Last activity: 79 days |
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| We have a great big thread on this in the Private forum, but the gist is that: * he can't follow rules himself * he chooses to 'nail' staff by the same rules he vigorously break to a far bigger extent than any of us have ever done * we have explained to him that we have tried some steps in his direction but that it hasn't worked, and that thus rules have continually adapted according to what we deem appropriate during the past three years * he insults staff for no reason * he, and anyone else, is free to leave at any time; we're not keeping you here * running a board the way he wants is virtually impossible without a significant increase of invested time by all staff which would interfere much more with our paid jobs - I know I have one - and it still wouldn't work out quite right * he was permabanned before and hasn't shown any signs of bettering himself |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 1299/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| Wow. Well, here's what I have to say. While I respect your opinion and especially the way you presented it (without flipping out and saying "The staff sucks and this is the worst the board has ever been blah blah blah...") I'm going to go ahead and disagree with some aspects of it. Jesper basically summed up everything that needed to be said. A lot of people must have the impression that this is a board they pay money for. Ace, as the sole owner, offers this board as a free service. That's pretty much the trump card right there. But as staff, we do this for free on our own spare time. Maybe if we got paid for it, things would have to change a bit. And again, since it's Acmlm's board, it would be under his discretion. "I notice the staff here is alot more harsh." You must not have been a member of many message boards. I've seen extreme BLATANT power abuse before at other boards. And if you think the staff flames here, then you haven't seen anything yet. Anyone ever been to Soul Angel before? I made an obvious joke about stalking one of the female members there. BAM! I was permabanned and flamed to hells. I think I got off lucky compared to what I've seen other users go through. People who make all these big "plans" about how they think the board should be run just need to get a hobby or something. This isn't a country we're running here. It's a simple message board. And honestly, it's not bad. We've had bad staff before. Either you're too new to remember, or you've just forgotten. It used to be pretty horrible. That was a lonnng time ago though. Things have gotten so much better since then and no one seems to realize it. By the way Silvershield, your exact registration date was 05-08-02 10:18 PM. "Every person you call "stupid" or insult is a person that feels and reacts." Not I. If someone calls me stupid or insults me (especially over the internet) it doesn't affect me whatsoever. Words are just words and if you KNOW that you're not stupid, then it shouldn't affect you. And why should you get upset over words that are said by someone that doesn't even know you? People take too many things to heart that they shouldn't. Anyway, I guess that's all I have to say on the matter. Like it's been said many times before, if you don't like it, then leave. There's plennnty of message boards out there you can join. What makes you think that you simply must stay at this one? Especially if you don't like it? No one makes you post here and it's not like you're paying for it. One last thing. A lot of times, you people don't see the pm's that get sent to staff. That usually has a big something to do with a lot of bans. |
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Nightmare Cukeman Permaban - Flaming, spam, non-sensical posting Level: 28  Posts: 149/310 EXP: 122971 For next: 8367 Since: 06-12-04 From: Hell " Damn i took the wrong turn " Since last post: 414 days Last activity: 319 days |
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what glenn is banned? what? why? |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 1303/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| Nightmare, just...check the trash can or something. Anyway, just out of chance, I came across something Yiffy Kitten said back in April that is 100% true. "Unfortunatley, some users can't take even the smallest insult, no matter how much they dish it out (for example, Kon-Tiki could not stand the implication of being a moron, yet had no trouble insulting wite or myself). These users often run away crying, feeling like the board is evil/against them/stupid and that they're never wrong." How is it that we always have these "something is wrong with the staff" yet we've never seen a thread called "User abuse"? People seem to think that the problem lies with the staff, and not the actual normal userbase itself. |
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Toxic in a sublime state of mind Level: 75  Posts: 1696/2857 EXP: 3732709 For next: 94195 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 8 hours |
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| OK Nightmare....here's a better plan, howsabout you click on his name to read the title, then look through his final posts. "Your status does not include some inherent right to tyranically stomp all over the inhabitants of this community." Right. When did myself, or Legion, or Colleen, or anyone stomp all over the inhabitants? Does closing a spammer's thread with a snide comment count as stomping? |
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Heian-794 Red Super Koopa Level: 44 Posts: 282/896 EXP: 611014 For next: 271 Since: 06-01-04 From: Kyoto, Japan Since last post: 21 days Last activity: 10 days |
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| I'm a newbie here and so maybe my opinion is worth little, but here goes: I agree with Apple and Surlent that the ban on bumping "old" threads (and the definition of "old") is ridiculous. Especially when you're working on a hack, you should be able to come back to it when you have new info. You should also be able to bump your own threads. I'm hacking F-Zero, and while I have nothing to replrt lately, there will eventually be progress, and as things now stand, I can't post again in the thread with a ton of useful, important, and potentially-irreplaceable data. Everything else is basically fine. |
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Nightmare Cukeman Permaban - Flaming, spam, non-sensical posting Level: 28 Posts: 150/310 EXP: 122971 For next: 8367 Since: 06-12-04 From: Hell " Damn i took the wrong turn " Since last post: 414 days Last activity: 319 days |
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well i didn't know that sry well i see that there is a good reason for him to be banned sry for the inconvinions. |
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Anya The Exile Ultima Mezcla de Yin Yan Level: 98  Posts: 2274/5337 EXP: 9530313 For next: 124040 Since: 03-15-04 From: South Florida Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 2 days |
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I wasn't here for the ban either (busy at work) and I'm not fully awake right now, so I won't say all of my peace right this moment, save for that I never ran across a problem from Glenn but I saw some of his actions were a bit unneeded and then again, I've seen inults being flung out by staff memebers, not just Glenn, that don't seem right as well. Then again, I'm not even awake right now, so I'm just going to walk away from this and return later.  |
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Silvershield Slime Level: 30 Posts: 293/345 EXP: 153029 For next: 12840 Since: 04-11-04 From: New Jersey Since last post: 60 days Last activity: 6 hours |
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Originally posted by The SomerZI strove to make it clear that my description was little more than an inspecific generalization, and that it does not necessarily apply to each and every moderator and adminstator. Originally posted by The SomerZPerhaps I should have removed my comments regarding Glenn. As I mentioned, this outburst of mine is not a direct consequence of his banning but, instead, a result of the nerve I've mustered after seeing how imperious and immature the leaders were in banning him. I admit that I do not know the whole story, so that may be an unfair judgment, but it makes no difference. Originally posted by HavoksNo, not a dictionary, but I've always loved reading and writing. Having such an interest in English will lead one to inadvertently include advanced vocabulary and structure into everyday communication .Originally posted by ValcionValcion, really, I can sympathize with the evils of the job. But it is your (that's a collective "your," not you specifically) duty as a leader of the board to seperate personal feelings and frustrations from the load which rests on your hefty administrative shoulders. The greatest thing about the Internet is that, unlike in real life, you have ample time to retreat and settle yourself; a harsh, spur of the moment, reflexive reaction can be avoided on nearly every occasion. You will find that you can do your job far better if, upon encountering a conflict, you abstain from immediately rendering a judgment. Even the smallest period of "thought time" is better than none at all. Originally posted by NightHawkAs I said, I agreed with his ideas but certainly not his methods. Originally posted by JarukothYour support is duly noted .Originally posted by LegionPaid or unpaid, job or hobby, your actions as a staff member affect real people. Just because it is done on your free time, doesn't meant that it is a duty that should not be taken seriously. As I grow older, my free time decreases and I place more value on the diminishing chances I have to enjoy myself; your (once again, a collective "your") idea that this place and this job are a personal playground neglect to consider the fact that, though you may enjoy running amok, you are inconveniencing (at best) several dozen people. Originally posted by LegionAgain, don't downplay this place's significance. Whether Acmlm's is of great importance in the grand scheme is irrelevant; it is a place that many people come to to enjoy themselves, and most of those people have developed a great attachment to the locale and its citizens. It is no country, but it is a legitimate society that should not be brushed aside as "simple" or unimportant. Originally posted by LegionAs a person who maintains a position of authority, you are held to higher standards than the normal member. In no way do I advocate an administrator ignoring continuous and unfounded abuse, but a leader's actions are (and indeed should be) more closely scrutinized. Originally posted by ToxicAs I responded to Legion in the immediately previous quote, you as an authority figure are held to higher standards than a normal user. That snide comment is, at face value, no more than biting remark. When spouted by an administator, though, it includes a sort of suggestion that the higher-up lacks the capacity to exercise such supreme power without tossing an insulting comment into the mix. Such behavior is not becoming of anyone, but it is downright unprofessional when displayed by a staff member. (edited by Silvershield on 07-19-04 12:16 AM) |
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