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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - Gay Marriage (again) |
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Imajin Buster Beetle Level: 34  Posts: 78/452 EXP: 234863 For next: 18788 Since: 03-15-04 From: Kingdom of Zeal Since last post: 39 days Last activity: 53 days |
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Originally posted by Mighty KefkaOriginally posted by Legion No, gays never had that right. They're tryiong to gain the right to marry  I've realized I really cant make a good arguement on this issue, because my main reason is beacuse "It's wrong", and thats not the best arguement in the world |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 209/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Kefka, people have been saying that Christianity has been dying and on it's way out since it began. It's not going anywhere.  And Christianity hasn't changed, people have. |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34  Posts: 35/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| Kefka: don't I have a relgion-related right to disagree with anything that goes against my religion? homosexuality is against my religion.... and I really don't appreciate the people in here that have been bashing christians for their beliefs.... you are being no better than we are in this whole situation... sure, maybe we are trying to withhold the rights of gays.... but gays seem to think that they can do the same back to us.... sure we don't agree on gay marriage... but to tell me that my beliefs are just as invalid as I'm saying yours are.... doesn't really do much for your position other than to aggrevate me even more |
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witeasprinwow Lakitu Level: 37 Posts: 105/555 EXP: 319587 For next: 18666 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 55 days Last activity: 55 days |
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Originally posted by Legion I can't figure out exactly where you stand, so I'll be straightforward about it. If you think we should have marraige for straights and civil unions for gays, I have to disagree with you. It's still discrimination. I know it's subtle, but it can't be allowed. If you think we should have civil unions for government and marriages left to the private religious sector, then I have to agree with you. Originally posted by geeogree It's not like the government is forcing you to be gay or anything |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 36/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| wite: you're right.... it's not... but it can't force me to like it, or to agree with it.... it can force me to not actually discriminate against them.... but I have every right to dislike homsexuality, and disagree with gay-marriage and even oppose it before it's legalized.... |
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gnkkwinrrul Dry Bones Level: 39  Posts: 112/647 EXP: 402054 For next: 2717 Since: 03-15-04 From: LYKEOMGIMFROMSOMEPLACE???? Since last post: 81 days Last activity: 40 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree You can believe what you want, it is your opinion |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 212/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| "If you think we should have civil unions for government and marriages left to the private religious sector, then I have to agree with you." Hmmm... Well I need it explained just a little more. So for all legal purposes, everyone (hetero or homo) would get civil unions and marriage would be an optional thing should people want to do that? Is that what you're saying? |
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witeasprinwow Lakitu Level: 37 Posts: 108/555 EXP: 319587 For next: 18666 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 55 days Last activity: 55 days |
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Originally posted by Legion Yes. (edited by witeasprinwow on 03-19-04 03:56 PM) |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 213/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by witeasprinwowOriginally posted by Legion Hmmm, well that doesn't sound like a bad idea actually. It would make sense, and at the same time keep it so that no one is discriminated against and our beliefs that marriage should be this or that could stay intact too. Not a bad idea at all. |
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kiwibonga Double metal axe Level: 27  Posts: 12/266 EXP: 106040 For next: 10119 Since: 03-15-04 From: Montreal, QC, Canada Since last post: 126 days Last activity: 3 days |
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| You know what? We have civil unions in France. You know what you can do? You don't need to go through a divorce lawsuit or anything, you go to the city hall and say "we broke up, bye" -- It's an excuse for a marriage, and doesn't have any weight at all. Cheating on your partner isn't even considered adultery. And geeogree, we are not bashing christians, we are bashing religious folks who see marriage as a religious institution, when it fact it is divided into a legal institution and a religious institution. Gay marriage would only affect the legal part of marriage, therefore people using a religious standpoint should have absolutely NO say in this. |
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The SomerZ Summer, yay! Level: 45  Posts: 88/862 EXP: 618182 For next: 41982 Since: 03-15-04 From: Norway Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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| witeasprinwow: I feel you've misunderstood me completely, and I feel that I need to sort of "clear my name". Radical does not equal Anti-democratic or anti-government. Radical means that you're Pro big changes, that's all. And by saying "screw conservatives", I'm not saying that I don't think they should be allowed to believe in what they believe in (one of my best friends are currently in city hall for the conservative party, surely if I wanted all conservatives to go to Hell, I wouldn't have him as a friend), I'm simply saying I don't believe in what they're saying. I probably could have worded myself in a different way, and said "I don't agree with conservatives", but that wouldn't have the same strong feel to it, now, would it? By the way, you label me as "insane" for having my viewpoints. I would say that's pretty anti-democratic of you, wouldn't you? And I'm not even that far to the left on the political spectrum, I wonder how you'd treat all those who are way left of me. And, yes, I am fully aware of what Mr. Churchill is saying. I have written about the problems of how generations usually are in favor of progress and controversial ideas, but then turn into conservatives as they get through their views, and younger generations come around to bring even more controversial views. This is why, in my thoughts where I attempt to construct my ideal society, I have proposed an upper limit for the age of anyone in power. |
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witeasprinwow Lakitu Level: 37 Posts: 110/555 EXP: 319587 For next: 18666 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 55 days Last activity: 55 days |
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Originally posted by The SomerZ I wasn't sure how to interpret your views, so I was saying that if you did indeed wanted the Conservative party to be legally barred or something from participating in the government, that you would be insane. Yes, lots of people have insane political views. There comes a point where you can't help but classify something as anything but insane. Lyndon LaRouche ran on the Democratic ticket for president for the 6th election year in a row this year. He's basically a cross between Marx and Hitler. He wants the government to be heavily Socialist, but he also believes in a master Aryian race and wants to kill all minorities. I can't help but see the man as a nutjob. I believe most positions in America do have a minimum age requirement. I know the president has to be at least 35 years old. As a footnote, anything "Pro-Big Changes" is generally also far to one side or another of the political spectrum in today's world. (edited by witeasprinwow on 03-19-04 06:07 PM) |
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The SomerZ Summer, yay! Level: 45 Posts: 89/862 EXP: 618182 For next: 41982 Since: 03-15-04 From: Norway Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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Yup, you can't be radical and stand in the political center, that's for sure. All I'm saying is that there are a lot of people who are a lot more radical than me. As radicals go, I'm fairly moderate.  And, yeah, I guessed the people you thought were insane were people like the Mr. LaRouche you mentioned. I guess I can understand you using the word insane for him, even though I'm not very fond of throwing that word around. |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 347/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| You sure seem to think you know what you're talking about but you really don't. Jesus condemned ANY sin. And the Bible clearly says that homosexuality is a sin. No two ways about it. No misinterpretations. It's all clear cut. The same Bible also says Jesus loved his people and was willing to forgive his people as well. If we believed every single word the Bible said, we'd be fundamentalists. And I don't think I qualify as one, as it's good (shock!) to question your faith and to evaluate certain topics as they come along. I have no problem with homosexuals. I'm not going to pass a couple on the street and make a face or yell "SINNERS!" at them. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 229/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by Colleen Well thank you Colonel Obvious. I hope you weren't trying to imply that I didn't know that."I have no problem with homosexuals. I'm not going to pass a couple on the street and make a face or yell "SINNERS!" at them. "That's fine, and neither do I. |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 366/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| I'm just pointing out (to anyone who isn't religious or doesn't practice Christianity) that Jesus was a lot more forgiving than God. Jesus only lost his temper once (at the merchants in the temple), while God in the Old Testament... well... things were different back then. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 232/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by Colleen Jesus more forgiving than God?  Jesus WAS God. |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 367/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Jesus was the son of God. You could say a manifestation, but he was far more forgiving than... well... God himself. Jesus would never get anything done with punishments. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 233/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by Colleen Son of God is a metaphor. Jesus was the physical human form of God. Part of the Holy Trinity. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 337/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| As a bit of a studious person on these topics, let's keep off Christianity. But, as a side note: The religion itself has not changed, as Leg said, it is the sects and people within. Up until 1945 the Catholic Church advoacted the belief that Jews killed Christ. They did this based on heavy political pressure. In fact, it's not just Catholics who've had this belief, it is much of the sects of the faith. Gays, by Biblical rights, shouldn't exist. I'm not agreeing with that, but this is probably going to be one of the biggest topics we can get our heads around. Homosexuality is nothing new, there are theories on why it exists...It's a nature vs. nurture things, it's an evolutionary response to overcrowding. As it stands, you can throw out any theory you want, I can't disagree with it right off the bat, I'm neither a psychologist, evolutionary biologist, or anyone that pretends to know anything beyond what I know. So in saying this, we have to look at the Truth, as Plato quoted Socrates. Socrates, at his trial, defended himself through the disproving that he was a God among men, disproving he was an atheist of sorts, by adhering to the prophecies of the Temple of the Delphic Apollo. And to this extent, all arguments that we hear today on this subject ignore the Truth, what we're hearing is Sophists shouting back and forth democratic and legal slanders. Faith should hold no hand over the law of Rights. Rights are what we are discussing, the fact that Christians have the right to exist, and now the right for equality within reason is diminished for another group. This goes against the Constitution of America, in which there is a seperation of Church and State. The State has to do what is best for the Rights of its people, not what is best for the Rights of the Church. Faith should hold no bound upon the sanctioning of two people. It is not the State that allows to people to join together. It is their love and affection towards each other that joins them together. What we see is a piece of paper that is stamped by a Priest or otherwise and processed by a Ministry or otherwise. This process itself cannot change, there must be a beauacracy standing to allow Social Services to exist, but it should be the State that makes legal two people's love, and a Church to recognize and sanctify it, if the people choose. PS: Legion, Jesus wasn't God. Jesus is God. |
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