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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - Gay Marriage (again) |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34  Posts: 22/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| yeah, but where does it stop? what if I am in love with 2 people.... is it then wrong that we can't all be in a "civil union" together? who's to say that that is wrong, when 2 people of the same sex can get married..... will there ever be a line? | |||
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 120/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree yeah, but where does it stop? what if I am in love with 2 people.... is it then wrong that we can't all be in a "civil union" together? who's to say that that is wrong, when 2 people of the same sex can get married..... will there ever be a line? That's the point I was trying to get across earlier. I worded it wrong though I think. |
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Valentine Revolution Leever Level: 24  Posts: 53/199 EXP: 68616 For next: 9509 Since: 03-15-04 From: UK Since last post: 103 days Last activity: 59 days |
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| I think the 'line' is consent. If you want to marry two people, and they want to marry you fully knowing you are marrying both than I personally don't see the problem. Hence you can't marry kids, dead people or camels because they can't consent. Did Christianity really invent marriage? I would have thought it was a lot older than that. I'm quite curious, I love knowing the history of things. |
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NSNick Laidback Admin Level: 85  Posts: 20/3875 EXP: 5895841 For next: 2699 Since: 03-15-04 From: North Side School: OSU Since last post: 9 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| I think marriage needs to be wholly in the field of religion, and civil unions should be the only thing the state recognizes. That way the church could marry straight folk (and perhaps there are some churches that would perform gay marriages, however rare), and both gay and straight couples alike would enter into civil unions and be equal in the eyes of the law. | |||
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 122/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| Marriage was around before, but not in the same sense. I believe it was Catholicism that created the marriage concept that is around today. If I'm wrong, then someone please correct me. | |||
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Kasumi-Astra Administrator Level: 62  Posts: 74/1867 EXP: 1971846 For next: 12840 Since: 03-15-04 From: Reading, UK Uni: Sheffield, UK Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 12 hours |
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| Legion: The union of two people has been around for far longer than Catholicism, although they may have introduced the modern concept. Chad: That's right... We've found happiness together and I don't want to let that go just because someone disagrees with our love in principle. Some people associate homosexuality with sex. If anything, it's defined by love and partnership, which is why it should be recognised under marriage. Regardless of whether it's right or wrong, homosexuality is a reality in society today, and there are couples regardless. However, these couples have no legal rights whatever. If Chad was injured in hospital, I would have no right to see her. If I died, she would have no right to be part of the processes after my death. She wouldn't even have any right to carry out my final wishes, like my prefernce of burrial. The government has an obligation to represent the public, and they need to address these issues. I appologise, but I do not wish to discuss any religious discussion... I acknoledge that many Christian people object to my wishes, but I do not acknoledge any motivations that can be found in references to the bible. Originally posted by Lucrecia Barton But what about those of us who don't follow the bible? I don't think its right that conditions should be placed on me by a religion that I don't believe in. *shrugs* Love is love right?  (edited by Kasumi-Astra on 03-17-04 05:16 PM) |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 23/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| well, Jews did it in much the same way.... maybe that's just because that's how I imagine it.... but, most cultures had some form of marriage.... whether it was official or whatever.... but come on.... consent?.... so, I could marry 5 people if we all consented? what the hell does marriage count for then? |
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Kasumi-Astra Administrator Level: 62 Posts: 75/1867 EXP: 1971846 For next: 12840 Since: 03-15-04 From: Reading, UK Uni: Sheffield, UK Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 12 hours |
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| Geeogree: I don't know, why don't you ask them? It's not as if we represent all alternative partnerships, only myself and my girlfriend. I honestly have no clue why they are in love. |
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Banedon Giant Red Paratroopa Level: 55 Posts: 205/1408 EXP: 1291380 For next: 22809 Since: 03-15-04 From: Michigan Since last post: 101 days Last activity: 90 days |
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| Bush made this a big issue so that he would have a better chance of being re-elected. He wants the public to get their minds off of the war in Iraq and the bad economy come election time. I don't see the big deal about marriage vs. civil unions...I think that a civil union should have the same rights as a marriage. Who cares what it's called? |
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Valentine Revolution Leever Level: 24 Posts: 55/199 EXP: 68616 For next: 9509 Since: 03-15-04 From: UK Since last post: 103 days Last activity: 59 days |
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| I'm going to go all girly on you and say marriage = love. If six people love each other and devote their lives to each other then good on em. Marriage, like religion I guess, is what you make of it. | |||
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 123/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by Lucrecia Barton I'm going to go all girly on you and say marriage = love. If six people love each other and devote their lives to each other then good on em. Marriage, like religion I guess, is what you make of it. But that's just the thing. The sacred meaning of marriage is being disrespected by this. Day by day it demeans the principal behind it. The union of a man and a woman in love. That's why we need cival unions. The meaning of marriage is still held intact while homosexuals get the same rights. |
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Valentine Revolution Leever Level: 24 Posts: 56/199 EXP: 68616 For next: 9509 Since: 03-15-04 From: UK Since last post: 103 days Last activity: 59 days |
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| This is sacred. My relationship is a damn more sacred than straight people who just get married for money, or under the influence. I'm not disrespecting anything. I believe in the sancity of marriage a great deal. I think its disrespectful to assume my marriage is less holy than anyone elses based on my external genitalia. | |||
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Toxic in a sublime state of mind Level: 75  Posts: 245/2857 EXP: 3732709 For next: 94195 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 8 hours |
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| What I do not understand, is why Christians that are gay, are infact still Christian. It is against their beliefs...so why do they? We had this discussion in my history class, man I had a headache....16 year old shouting match. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 124/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by Lucrecia Barton I think its disrespectful to assume my marriage is less holy than anyone elses based on my external genitalia. Your marriage IS less holy because it's a marriage based on sin. Toxic, that's a whole different world right there. I'll explain it more when I get home because I have to go now but basically, a homosexual Christian isn't truly living a Christian life because they choose not to have God help them with their sin but instead live with it. I'll explain it more when I get home. |
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drjayphd Beamos What's that spell? pimp! Level: 56  Posts: 32/1477 EXP: 1387410 For next: 10766 Since: 03-15-04 From: CT Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| First off: Bush, according to some reports, doesn't even seem to like the amendment. He's just pushing it to appease the religious right. My views? If we aren't ready for gay marriage, guess what. VN's right. Go with civil unions for state-sanctioned relationships and save marriage for churches. Marriage as a religious institution isn't even the government's job. And, as we all know, separate but equal is illegal under our laws. You want to save marriage for straight people? Give up the word for secular relationships. If you've got that much of a hard-on for the verbiage, then you won't mind, now, will you? If you're against it because you're a Christian: Why? Do you do everything a religious leader tells you to? I mean, I'm in a bit of a spat with my parents because I choose to not consciously abstain on Fridays during Lent. Even though I don't call myself a Christian. Even though after thinking about the whole practice, it comes off as pious grandstanding. And yet, there's still plenty of people who do it just because they always have. Sound familiar? geogree: Let it go. If everyone consents to it and can give informed consent, then we technically shouldn't care. I don't see the country getting ready to issue plural marriage licenses, though. Plural marriage isn't going to be an issue because no one's GOING to make it an issue unless it furthers their arguments (more often than not against gay marriage). Slippery slope is not an argument. There will be a line. At two consenting adults. Incest? It's already legal in some states (Texas, for instance, allows first cousins to marry). Plural marriage? No. Bestiality? Stop floundering for arguments. (Most of this paragraph isn't directed at you, just discrediting the slippery slope argument.) Want to argue against gay marriage? Legion's got a start on how to do it properly. |
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Kasumi-Astra Administrator Level: 62 Posts: 77/1867 EXP: 1971846 For next: 12840 Since: 03-15-04 From: Reading, UK Uni: Sheffield, UK Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 12 hours |
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| Legion: We don't give a fuck about sin. We don't give a crap about christianity. Guess what, we don't care, and we don't recognise any religious arguement you care to put to us. We want to have our marriage recognised by law and society, like all straight couples. Any descrimination is wrong, and the door is open for anyone to challenge descrimination. Hey, there maybe discrimination against peadophiles, but I have nothing to do with them and object to my association with these people in your theories about the future. I've asked you to respect my wishes not to discuss religion, and you've forced me to defend my lover. Don't make me do it again. (edited by Kasumi-Astra on 03-17-04 05:49 PM) |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 24/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| [laugh] you can't seperate this issue from religion, especially in the US.... since the US is and was a christian place.... I'm willing to bet that the majority of people in the US are some form of christianity.... what do you see in every city and town of the US, a christian church.... so yeah, christianity is a part of this....  |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 193/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by geeogree [laugh] you can't seperate this issue from religion, especially in the US.... since the US is and was a christian place.... I'm willing to bet that the majority of people in the US are some form of christianity.... what do you see in every city and town of the US, a christian church.... so yeah, christianity is a part of this.... Well, TECHNICALLY, it's not. Because they're fighting for a civil union, not to be married in a Christian church. However, you have somewhat of a point, because the majority of the government is Christian, and their beliefs could potentially affect how the vote goes for this amendment. However, I still believe that this is a non-issue, and it will not pass through Congress. The only reason Bush brought it up is to win over the religious right (meaning religious conservatives), mainly because many thought his dad lost the election because he failed to win them over. That is why Bush brought it up. But odds are this amendment/bill won't be passed, so we don't need to worry about this really. |
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Kasumi-Astra Administrator Level: 62 Posts: 78/1867 EXP: 1971846 For next: 12840 Since: 03-15-04 From: Reading, UK Uni: Sheffield, UK Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 12 hours |
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Exactly. They have their own beliefs, but they have an obligation, proffesionally and politically to represent the public. We can fight for that, and the whole GLBT scene is fighting for it, because it's our right.Originally posted by Mighty Kefka Well, TECHNICALLY, it's not. Because they're fighting for a civil union, not to be married in a Christian church. However, you have somewhat of a point, because the majority of the government is Christian, and their beliefs could potentially affect how the vote goes for this amendment. However, I still believe that this is a non-issue, and it will not pass through Congress. The only reason Bush brought it up is to win over the religious right (meaning religious conservatives), mainly because many thought his dad lost the election because he failed to win them over. That is why Bush brought it up. But odds are this amendment/bill won't be passed, so we don't need to worry about this really. |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 25/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| uh yeah.... and the public would be? a -majority- of christian people.... therefore (using the democratic system) majority rules?.... or, is it not that way anymore....  |
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