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2 users currently in General Chat:  Dark Vampriel |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - Ethics: Is an animal’s life worth a human’s? |
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Alastor the Stylish Hey! I made a cool game! It's called "I poisoned half the food, so if you eat you might die!" Have a taco.  Level: 114  Posts: 1598/7620 EXP: 16258468 For next: 51099 Since: 03-15-04 From: Oregon, US Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I actually believe sentient robots have souls. They can think and learn, and thusly, they have a soul. If it helps you understand it, think of it as a spirit. They mean the same thing, anyway. | |||
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DarkSlaya POOOOOOOOOOOORN! Level: 88 Posts: 429/4249 EXP: 6409254 For next: 241410 Since: 05-16-04 From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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Originally posted by Kyouji Craw If you view it like this yes they have but I don't think they do. They can 'learn' if we change their program alittle. But soon, they will dynamicly lern by themselves, that's for sure. |
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Alastor the Stylish Hey! I made a cool game! It's called "I poisoned half the food, so if you eat you might die!" Have a taco. Level: 114 Posts: 1600/7620 EXP: 16258468 For next: 51099 Since: 03-15-04 From: Oregon, US Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Yeah... What's your point? So can people, so can animals, what are you getting at? | |||
Silvershield Slime Level: 30 Posts: 286/345 EXP: 153029 For next: 12840 Since: 04-11-04 From: New Jersey Since last post: 60 days Last activity: 6 hours |
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Originally posted by Kyouji CrawHaving a soul is not some club where, once you meet requirements X and Y, you're in. One of the most basic prerequisites for a soul is life. Intelligence may (or may not) be a factor, but a nonliving collection of circuits and wires is soulless. I try to avoid religious reasoning because it leads to stalemates and bad feelings, but just to clarify my personal stance: we humans are God's chosen. We have dominion over the birds of the sky, the fish of the sea, and every creature that walks the land. We may appear similar in regards to the way in which we live - that is, we consume food for energy, breathe air, etc. - but we are above them. It's almost as if we are the Jesus of the animal kingdom, if you'll forgive the strange parallel which I've just conceived of: we are "part" animal just as He was part human, but we are also more than that, like He was divine. Not to mention our rule over animalia, just as Jesus (or God, if you prefer) reigns over all life. |
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Alastor the Stylish Hey! I made a cool game! It's called "I poisoned half the food, so if you eat you might die!" Have a taco. Level: 114 Posts: 1604/7620 EXP: 16258468 For next: 51099 Since: 03-15-04 From: Oregon, US Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by SilvershieldI will not attempt to counter the religious argument, as it can only lead to bad feelings between us. Let me state that I never likened it to a club, but, I question your thought that states robots do not live. They can die by taking too much damage, just like any other creature, and as well they require fuel, just like any other living creature... While the dictionary entry may not say that anything that moves and thinks and feels is alive, what it says can be accomplished by robots. They can feel, grow, reproduce, have feelings... I can understand the point you're coming from, but, I just tend to think of a soul as being the spirit that inhabits every living creature; It doesn't matter if they were made by man or if they were made by god, just so long as something lives, it has a soul. |
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Silvershield Slime Level: 30 Posts: 287/345 EXP: 153029 For next: 12840 Since: 04-11-04 From: New Jersey Since last post: 60 days Last activity: 6 hours |
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| There needs to be some concrete definition of a living creature. For my own purposes, I have considered any being possessing DNA as alive. Machines "think," but they are not alive. A motion tracker can "sense," but it is not alive. An automobile consumes fuel, but it is not alive. The use of DNA as a defining trait of life may be a bit overtechnical and strays somewhat from a deeper definition of what life is, but it is effective. | |||
Cruel Justice XD Level: 55  Posts: 83/1384 EXP: 1253266 For next: 60923 Since: 03-20-04 From: Darkwoods Penetentiary Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 7 hours |
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| It depends on what person you're implying. If the person is one of those assholes who decapitated people on tape, let them fucking die (not the dog, save the poor little dog!); Otherwise, save them, assuming that the dog can swim. Ants have brains smaller than sugar cubes. I think the scientists talk about the relativity in proportion to the size. Yes, animals (especially domestic) have a life worth saving; a point well made by Kyouji Craw. (edited by The_Raven on 07-08-04 01:17 AM) |
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asdf Cukeman Level: 28 Posts: 90/303 EXP: 128796 For next: 2542 Since: 03-16-04 Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 54 min. |
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| Such a situation would really depend. For the former, I would help the person if not saving him or her could result in manslaughter charges somehow. Otherwise, I would probably save the dog. As for the latter, it would probably be around the amount of an entire colony. | |||
Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43  Posts: 85/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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| my extremely short answer: no. no it is not. | |||
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mrmenz Slime Level: 30 Posts: 127/347 EXP: 157982 For next: 7887 Since: 03-15-04 From: USA/PA Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 39 days |
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| Sometimes animals lfie is worth more than a humans, how can you put a value on life ? simple its greed. A live is a live just because animals reproduce faster doesn't make them inferior. If an animal had the power to make a decision they would probly claim their live is more important its just the way thigns work. Besides unlike most humans animals give that unconditional love so many people probly would go for the dog. For me it would really be conditional im not particulary fond of dogs so.... | |||
Prier Archangel Administrative Priestess. NUCLEAR SUB WEEEOOOO Level: 119  Posts: 1961/8392 EXP: 18790939 For next: 138352 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima Dist. - Tokyo, Japan Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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Originally posted by Silvershield You're going to hate it if and when they ever get computers running off of biological material. It's been theorized to use something like DNA strands as a processors for information. Heck, I would wonder outside of religious believers if people actually believe that there is such a thing as a soul to begin with. It at least brings up an old Simpsons ep. Bart sold his soul for five bucks, pretty good ep. overall. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 1237/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| "we are indeed no greater than animals from a purely biological angle, though our mental capacities clearly distinguish us." Yeah, those same mental capacities are going to be the cause of this worlds destruction one day as well. So does that make us better than animals? Who really have taken no part in destroying this world? "You know, I don't know if animals have souls or not, but if anyone thought robots did..." Ok, I don't believe in "souls" but for the sake of debating/arguing, let's just assume for this post that I do. SS, I can't believe you would think that humans have souls but not other creatures. Take this for example. You get a puppy and throughout it's life, you constantly yell at it and beat it. Obviously whenever you (and probably anyone else) approaches it, it will either run away from you or it will lower it's head and tuck its tail between it's legs. That right there would be fear which is, of course, an emotion. And if animals can experience fear, then surely they can experience love, hate, envy, sadness, etc... I very well do believe that all animals feel the same emotions that we do. By what I gather from the meaning of "soul", that makes animals have them as well. And really, you shouldn't go by a dictionary definition when it comes to this. The dictionary has a defintion of love but honestly now, can we really define such a convoluted emotion such as love? It has SO many meanings. You can't define it. I'd put "soul" almost up there with love. It's relative, really. And now for the questions... "If you saw a person you didn (edited by Legion on 07-08-04 09:39 AM) |
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Grey the Stampede Don't mess with powers you don't understand. And yes. That means donuts. Level: 82  Posts: 93/3770 EXP: 5192909 For next: 16318 Since: 06-17-04 From: Kingston, RI, USA, Earth Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Well said, Leg. And Silvershield, something you said has been eating at me. Originally posted by Silvershield How do we have dominion over other forms of life? Thats impossible, place one human anywhere in the world outside of civilization, and guaranteed he won't be showing any forms of dominion over anything. The inability for a human to survive without other humans is what makes us weaker than all other animals. We have no defenses. Granted, many other animals travel in packs, such as wolves, but they have strong jaws to bite with, they can run at high speeds, they are fit and able to survive alone for at least a short while before dying. Humans cannot. Not naturally, not anymore. We've become reliant on civilization and our tools to help us survive. If we need to use that as a crutch to keep us going, how can we say we're superior to anything? Our technology makes us superior, but we as humans are not. Our mental capacities are all we have, and as Legion said, it is leading us closer and closer to the destruction of the world. Not only that, but our mental capacities have caused us to take on such a pompous air of superiority to the rest of the world that we don't even realize how weak we really are anymore. My stepfather once asked me if I'd go hunting if the bears had guns. I told him I'd never go hunting anyway. |
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kornfan There's a BARB in my EYE! No reregistering, Mr. Permabanned! Level: 38  Posts: 104/622 EXP: 344540 For next: 25907 Since: 06-27-04 From: the middle of fu**ing nowhere... Since last post: 414 days Last activity: 297 days |
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| I agree with silvershield. Genesis says that God gave us dominion over all animals. If God didn't, then how did we get it? Like you just said, place a human anywhere away from others, and he won't be showing dominance. Sounds like a God-ordained thing to me. This is turning into a discussion of ethics, and religious belief. | |||
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43 Posts: 86/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by Disturbed1 Anyone who has read Daniel Quinn'sIshmael: An Adventure of the Mind and Spirit please join me in watching this: the view of the Universe as created for man. if you read, you know what i'm talking about  |
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Grey the Stampede Don't mess with powers you don't understand. And yes. That means donuts. Level: 82 Posts: 104/3770 EXP: 5192909 For next: 16318 Since: 06-17-04 From: Kingston, RI, USA, Earth Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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Originally posted by Disturbed1 You ask how we got it. I'm saying we don't have it in the first place. It's not a conflict of religious beliefs, and it's been a conflict of ethics since the start (note the title of the thread). Read my post a second time. |
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Sister Micro-Goomba Level: 8 Posts: 10/17 EXP: 1545 For next: 642 Since: 07-04-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 459 days Last activity: 269 days |
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| I have actully no idea what I would do. I think I would become petrefied and just stand there and staring without knowing what to do... Or I would try to play hero and save them both, failing that and drown myself.... And the other thing about the ant... I don't know... but as they'r so small, i don't think of them as something really alive.. I know it sounds terrible... When I write it I see how it sounds.. But i think that is how i feel. | |||
Ramadan Roy Like Like ...Or you'll be wearing your ass for a hat. Renowned Otaku Level: 44 Posts: 277/816 EXP: 569705 For next: 41580 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 7 hours |
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| I, sort of like Silvershield(Sort of) think that animals do not have free thought. Although, I do not agree with the many savage acts that go on in our country(USA) and nobody does anything about them. Read up on chicken silos for example. | |||
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kornfan There's a BARB in my EYE! No reregistering, Mr. Permabanned! Level: 38 Posts: 113/622 EXP: 344540 For next: 25907 Since: 06-27-04 From: the middle of fu**ing nowhere... Since last post: 414 days Last activity: 297 days |
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Originally posted by GreyYou ask how we got it. I'm saying we don't have it in the first place. It's not a conflict of religious beliefs, and it's been a conflict of ethics since the start (note the title of the thread). Read my post a second time. It is a conflict of religious beliefs, because the person has a soul, and the dog does not. The person with the soul is worth saving, and the dog(although worth saving) is not a priority in this case. |
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NSNick Laidback Admin Level: 85  Posts: 600/3875 EXP: 5895841 For next: 2699 Since: 03-15-04 From: North Side School: OSU Since last post: 9 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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Originally posted by Legion |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - Ethics: Is an animal’s life worth a human’s? |
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