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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - To gun or not to gun? |
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Are you for guns or against.| Woo guns, lets go shoot up the town! |
47.4%, 18 votes | Boo guns, lets go hide in the corner. |
52.6%, 20 votes | Multi-voting is disabled.
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 2061/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Well, NightHawk, may I ask the validity of what that site says? After all, it is just a small website. And what most of it says is that the movie implies things rather than give facts... well, I don't see how implying is lying... I think Mr. Moore wrote a defense for those saying that the thing was fraud. I'll post it sometime if I find it. And I don't see how it implies that the NRA likes killings... but Charleton Heston is an ass, and he did schedule his events right after those shootings, despite people of the community fighting against it. And he claimed in his interview with Mr. Moore that he didn't know that the events had happened in Michigan, and that he couldn't cancel in Colorado. Well... seriously though, do you feel it to be appropriate when someone has a gun ralley in a community right after a gun death in that community? He didn't lie about that at all. But he did not imply that the NRA likes deaths. And the largest nuclear manufacturer was right where he said it was. He did not add the missles behind that guy he interviewed.  Michael Moore may be a self proclaimed hic of sorts, but he is not stupid and wouldn't add all that shit. If you can find SUFFICIENT evidence saying that he lied throughout the movie, I will then have to agree with you. He didn't change the words of the people he interviewed, nor did he change the actions of everyone around him. And that was the whole movie right there, other than his occasional questions. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 906/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| This is why I really don't like documentaries. They are tailored in a way that it tries to force people to think a certain way by portraying things however they want. They are rarely bias. That is why you shouldn't take too many things to heart when watching them. The only thing I really learned and took note of was the whole Canada segment and the notion of fear controlling America. |
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Emptyeye Real American Level: 67 Posts: 6/2273 EXP: 2488421 For next: 104451 Since: 05-24-04 From: I DUNNOOOOOOOO!! Since last post: 9 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Personally, I think gun control in any form is stupid, criminal or no. In obtaining their weaponry, the Columbine killers broke an insane amount of laws that already existed. I think the number was something like 423, though I can't back that up with anything. The point is, solving unenforced legislature by heaping more legislature that won't be enforced on top of it is not the answer to stopping crimes, with guns or otherwise. My other problem with it is that anyone who wants to commit a violent crime will commit a violent crime. Going along those lines, anyone who wants to obtain a gun badly enough and use if for crime will find a way to do it; if you take away the legal channels, they'll simply go to the black market. I'm a firm beliver in the adage "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them". |
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NightHawk Bob-Omb Level: 39  Posts: 109/621 EXP: 374743 For next: 30028 Since: 03-26-04 From: Switzerland Since last post: 432 days Last activity: 339 days |
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Originally posted by KefkaI don't see how the size of the one page plays into this, and I wouldn't really call it "small" as even at 1600x1200, there are several screenfulls. And in a documentary, which by definition should contain ONLY FACTS, implying is pretty much the same as lying.... Actually, he didn't "schedule" those meetings after the shootings. The event in Denver (as stated on that page I linked to), was fixed in date and place years in advance -- it was too late to change the date or place, so they cancelled everything except the parts that were mandated BY LAW. The event in Flint was EIGHT MONTHS after the shooting, and was completely unrelated to it (it was a "get out the vote" rally). The speeches that Heston gave, btw, were HEAVILY edited in the movie. Moore spliced several pieces of the speech together to create something other than what Heston said. As stated above, he had no choice about the meeting because of laws concerning nonprofit organizations. Those weren't missiles, they were launchers for TV satellites. Read the link I gave you, it has a number of the lies written out very plainly. No, he was smart enough not to change their words... he just changed practically every possible piece of context about it |
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Dracoon Zelda The temp ban/forum ban bypasser! Level: 84  Posts: 480/3727 EXP: 5514391 For next: 147561 Since: 03-25-04 From: At home Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| I hate people trying to make me change my way of thinking because my way of thinking is the best. Guns are good. You going to rob someone with a gun? I Really think that all people trying to ban guns need to look at our bill of rights the thing garenteed by our highest power. They can not take it away even with a new admendment because it is in the bill of rights and nothing from the bill of rights is supposed to be taken away. | |||
Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 71/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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| Gun laws don't really affect the crime rate, I believe. They don't make it go up, they don't make it go down. Guns are a minor symptom of society's problems, not a cause or solution. Guns aren't inherently bad or good, but there needs to be a sensible registration and licensing scheme - just like with cars. ---------------- Also: I get EXTREMELY annoyed when pro-grun zealots in America claim that "Australia banned guns and the crime rate skyrocketed". This is so very not true. Firstly, we didn't "ban guns" but just a few types. Secondly, Australia has NEVER had that many guns, or an unrestricted right to own them - that's one difference between America and Australia. So it wasn't a huge crackdown that took us from an American-style gun-paradise to a "gun-banning" country - this is an delusion based on certain Americans' projecting their society's gun situation onto Australia, then applying our laws to that. And they misunderstand the laws, at any rate. Thirdly, statistics show that the crime rate has been basically steady from before the new gun laws to now. Only by very creatively twisting statistics or by making them up, can you claim otherwise. Sorry, unprovoked rant.. but it's a bet peeve of mine, that is, because it's become an article of faith for pro-gun zealots, and it gets cited as truth so often... but is so compeltely not true. (edited by Arwon on 05-24-04 02:09 AM) |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 2064/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by Dracoon I may very well be on your side on this, but don't get cocky about it.  "My way of thinking is the best" C'mon! And Nighthawk, point taken. However, I still believe from watching the interview several times, and from the responses of that one guy, that the company appears to make some sort of weapon... unless you can prove to me that the interview was scripted with some random idiot (which it might have been). There are two important points though in the movie: 1) The media has heavy influence over everything in the U.S. (see the banning of bullets in K-Mart) 2) The U.S. lives in fear and also has way more gun deaths than anyone else, even our neighbors on both borders. Which puzzles me, but seriously, I would like to know why. It isn't clear. That's what I mainly paid attention to in the movie. The reason I don't read most Moore and Franken books is because they are biased beyond belief. And often don't have good facts. Same with why I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh, or read Ann Coulter. All they do is bash the other side. |
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NightHawk Bob-Omb Level: 39 Posts: 111/621 EXP: 374743 For next: 30028 Since: 03-26-04 From: Switzerland Since last post: 432 days Last activity: 339 days |
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Originally posted by KefkaI'll do some digging on this later, but as I recall, Moore setup the interview under false pretenses, and the guy reacted like that because he didn't understand what Moore was talking about during the interview. But I'll dig it up later (I'm busy with that other matter I've been posting about lately  ).I won't deny that, but I will say that in my experience, it's much worse in Europe. More gun deaths, but fewer homicides overall. And a majority of violent crime is related to either gangs or the drug trade (a majority as in, over 50%). I only pay attention to Moore at all because there are too many people who take the words out of his mouth as if it were the "Word of God" |
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Jill In love with a dream.. Level: 36  Posts: 201/528 EXP: 296548 For next: 11562 Since: 03-15-04 From: Teh Sweden Since last post: 6 days Last activity: 14 hours |
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| Guns are cool but far too accessible in teh states. Everyone would benefit from banning them. | |||
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NightHawk Bob-Omb Level: 39 Posts: 112/621 EXP: 374743 For next: 30028 Since: 03-26-04 From: Switzerland Since last post: 432 days Last activity: 339 days |
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Originally posted by JillYes, honest citizens would benefit so much from making it more difficult for them to protect themselves, while making no difference whatsoever in the availability of guns to criminals. Exactly why do you think criminals wouldn't get guns if guns were banned? It's ALREADY illegal for criminals to own guns in the States, and most crimes have more severe sentencing guidelines when guns are used in the commision of said crime; that doesn't stop criminals from obtaining guns, and using them. |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 1872/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| You must have license and all for having them here in Sweden, and the license is quite hard to get. So pretty none have guns here, the only one I know that has a weapon is my aun, and that's becuse he is a hunter. And knowing him he is quite careful. Anyway, shootings is rare in Sweden. Heck if you get murdered or killed by gunshots you can get the heck on that you appear on the news all over the country. Murderer is a big thing in our country...  My opinion is that US probably needs stricter rules about guns, there probably would be protests if it was going to be as strict as Sweden thought... |
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Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143  Posts: 989/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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Kwan Doesn't have a valid sized userpic. ||bass will be pissed :(((((((( Level: 50  Posts: 450/1137 EXP: 937111 For next: 10206 Since: 03-15-04 From: Durkadurkastan! Since last post: 22 days Last activity: 2 days |
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Originally posted by NightHawk Thank you. I always believed that film was over the top with it's points. However, I feel guns should be kept where they belong - as weapons of war. If you want to do sport, try archery or something, at least it takes more skill than shooting. |
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kiwibonga Double metal axe Level: 27  Posts: 114/266 EXP: 106040 For next: 10119 Since: 03-15-04 From: Montreal, QC, Canada Since last post: 126 days Last activity: 3 days |
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| I fail to see the point of owning a gun. Shooting targets? Ok... That can be fun... Protecting your home from robbers? I've lived in pretty harsh neighborhoods, if you need a gun to protect your family you're a dumb ass for living there in the first place... | |||
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The SomerZ Summer, yay! Level: 45  Posts: 267/862 EXP: 618182 For next: 41982 Since: 03-15-04 From: Norway Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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| I'm against gun-ownership, however, I find the options in this poll rather one-sided and immature. The problem with public ownership of guns is that untrained people who pocess guns do stupid things with them. Lots of accidental deaths have been caused by people who don't know how to operate a gun, and, call me na | |||
Super Sion You BlockHead! Level: 70 Posts: 508/2472 EXP: 3002513 For next: 13298 Since: 03-15-04 From: Yo Mommas House Since last post: 29 min. Last activity: 5 min. |
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| I personally dont think Guns should be used by any civilians. The only use of Guns I can condone are the guns used by our armies, they should be the ONLY individuals to be able to own and operate fire arms, because they are trained in how to use them and so on. Unlike this stupid idiots who buy guns in order to feel "powerful" and "protected". If I was ever attacked by someone Id settle it fist to fist...or maybe a pole but I would never use a gun because thats the cowards way. Something I really cant stand are these little punk ass "gangsters" who think they are so cool because they have a gun. | |||
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get.  Level: 73  Posts: 223/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I live in Australia, where there are relatively few guns. A lot of our farmers have guns, to protect their animals from predators (often feral animals, etc), but by and large, we here in Australia do not have guns. Guns are portrayed in society as instruments of force... or for killing I guess it's because I come from this perspective that I think that guns are NOT things to be taken lightly. I can't really say I'm "anti gun" because I can see uses for them, sadly, in this rather violent world we live in. But I do think that people should think very carefully about whether they NEED a gun, and I don't think they should ever be a "game" to people. Even as a hobby, I think that guns should be taken pretty seriously. For that reason, I guess I can't ever condone the idea of some people who think that they need to have several guns, just to "mess around with". I think that that's a pretty dangerous attitude to have, to tell the truth. So, I guess I'm a fence sitter. As for buying guns for protection, I'd be wary about that. A gun doesn't know who it's true owner is.... and there is always the possibility it can get into the wrong hands. Many people are shot by their own firearms. |
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Super Sion You BlockHead! Level: 70 Posts: 532/2472 EXP: 3002513 For next: 13298 Since: 03-15-04 From: Yo Mommas House Since last post: 29 min. Last activity: 5 min. |
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| Im against guns completly there are many MANY other ways to protect yourself that are safer and dont involve death. | |||
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 224/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| See, I can't be completely against guns. I'm not real sure of my American history, but, there was a reason there was a "right to bear arms" thingie.... I just think that guns aren't taken seriously enough by a lot of the people that have them or use them. I think that's what really gets me... that they're not taken seriously -- these are dangerous items. And that a lot of people will go get guns -- and play with them -- to fuel their ego, and for no other purpose. |
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ismannen Koopa Level: 18  Posts: 80/111 EXP: 28584 For next: 1313 Since: 03-15-04 From: tHE InTERNetS! Since last post: 70 days Last activity: 70 days |
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| As Jilkon said, guns seems to be far too accesible in the U.S. I believe the only way of getting a gun here in Sweden is that you'll have to be a hunter, or active practicing shooting. So there's no way for a "normal" person to get a gun just with the reason of protecting oneself. This, of course has it advantages and disadvantages. But most people here dont have any real need for a gun. And if you would, for example, shoot a robber in your house, you would most probably be prosecuted and get a jail sentence. That's the funny laws of Sweden |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - To gun or not to gun? |
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