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2 users currently in General Chat:  Dark Vampriel |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - Survey: The Atomic Bomb |
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Was dropping 2 atomic bombs on Japan in 1945 justifiable?| Answer honestly, and if you wish, support your answer in a post | Yes |
46.8%, 22 votes | No |
42.6%, 20 votes | No decision |
10.6%, 5 votes | Multi-voting is disabled.
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kitty Come on babe, pet the pussy ;) Level: 70 Posts: 1092/2449 EXP: 2962406 For next: 53405 Since: 03-15-04 From: Scranton, PA, USA Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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| Well, it's the Principle of Double Effect: The US dropped two bombs (killing a lot of people) to end the war. In ethical examinations, NOTHING which has a negative first action/consequence (killing of people) can ever be ethical, no matter what the outcome (ending the war). It's a very stupid way of examining it in my humble opinion, but it's the way that nearly everyone who is considered ethical (The Vatican, most notably) examines the ethics of actions today. I think it's bad because you have situations where you cannot say which is the first actual intended action, and it's really a judgement call, but that's why it's the least flawless (used in conjunction with Prudential Personalism) and not perfect (no ethical measurement will probably ever be, because they must all be devoid of religious influences, etc)... If the bombs weren't dropped, the war would not have ended without FAR more US and Japanese, as well as Chinese, Russian, Canadian, and British casualties (As well as many other pacific islands, and Austrailia too, as it's without doubt, in my mind, that if Japan were beginning to lose very badly, they would have done a few very damaging kamikaze attacks on Austrailia, just to hurt them before losing the war). (edited by Yiffy Kitten on 05-19-04 06:29 AM) |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 1782/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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Originally posted by ToxicI think it depends on which country that uses the a-bomb, and which country that is getting attacked. But if US uses A-bombs again today. Well... let say that the world opinion about them will decrease by alot. We can discuss this what would happen if we didn't drop the bombs forever. How would the world been today if hitler didn't exist?  (there probably would have been other big war instead... heh)If they wasn't used in the WWII. They sure would have been used later... |
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Fyxe Lyn Level: 51 Posts: 192/1160 EXP: 954265 For next: 59673 Since: 03-29-04 Since last post: 117 days Last activity: 114 days |
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Originally posted by Weasel That's frightening. You justify killing thousands and thousands of civilians because 'it shows the US as a leading military power'. There are many ways to justify using the atomic bomb (although not all of the justifications are sound, of course), but I shall not take any stance on this as I do not know enough history about what happened. However, I will say that that is possibly the worst and most frightening justification I've ever heard. You could of shown the military power by just... Bombing anything. The open ocean would of been enough. In fact, I think America could of made Japan surrender via the atomic bomb without killing *anyone*, as long as they showed them what they COULD do. They certainly didn't have to drop two on some civilian targets. Two... It's just insane.. You can't say that if the bombs were not dropped, the war would of counted up far more overall deaths. You can't. You do not know that. Nobody knows that. You can take a guess, but... EDIT: Weasel, you also suggest that it's ok for America to nuke things, but not ok for any other countries to use them if they got their hands on them. Za? (edited by Fyxe on 05-19-04 01:17 PM) |
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Waddler-D Deddorokku Level: 33  Posts: 91/442 EXP: 227132 For next: 2047 Since: 03-15-04 From: Orange Ocean, Popstar Since last post: 168 days Last activity: 123 days |
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| Fyxe, you do have a point there. Basically the reasons why the Axis were defeated was because Germany, Italy and Japan at that time were becoming a leading military threat, as all they were doing is preparing for something. I think that's probably why quite a few countries hate the United States because the fact that we are a leading military power means that we can easily become a leading military threat. Though not to be off topic, while the bombs did made it so that the war stopped much sooner than expected. I'm pretty sure there was some calculation to this, Fyxe. Still, I get what you mean, as the calculations with the randomness of a bomb is not something that can't be put on paper. As what I have heard from the Chemistry paper, only 2% of the uranium in those bombs went off, the rest was just radiated in the place. Still though, I really don't think an atomic bomb is the best answer to something. It's not only destructive to buildings and people, but it's also environmentally destructive with the radiation. I'm pretty sure this affected more than just the civilians but nature itself was probably disturbed because of this. That's what I didn't like about it, as it's basically like an explosive AND chemical weapon almost. I just hate the idea of weapons of mass destruction, really. We should be more concerned with STOPPING stuff like this from happening and not promoting it... |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 1998/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by Waddler-D Actually, the reason why many countries hate us is because we are an imperializing country. We essentially occupy other countries and take them over indirectly, and sometimes even directly. You want proof? Look at Latin/South America in the last century. Now, I read the rest of your post also, but I just thought I'd point out why many countries do hate us. |
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Waddler-D Deddorokku Level: 33 Posts: 92/442 EXP: 227132 For next: 2047 Since: 03-15-04 From: Orange Ocean, Popstar Since last post: 168 days Last activity: 123 days |
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Originally posted by KefkaOriginally posted by Waddler-D Well, yeah... You are right about that, Kefka. We tend to be that way and it's definitely not the right thing to do. I mean, it's not essentially bad to check up on our neighbors, but taking countries over indirectly... I get what you're saying. Still, that was just one of my other assumption on why they hate us. |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 1999/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Oh, and off topic, but another bit of proof is... IRAQ! Yep, we're just takin it over!  Back on topic, thanks to all who have voted so far, this will be interesting for this piece of the U.S. History thing... |
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DarkSlaya POOOOOOOOOOOORN! Level: 88 Posts: 58/4249 EXP: 6409254 For next: 241410 Since: 05-16-04 From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| Hell no. Droping a bomb wasn't justifiable at all. I mean, there are still radiations of this. Humans should've never found out about how to manipulate uranium. | |||
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 2000/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by DarkSlaya Well, we use radiation for many other things, including health issues, you know. I wouldn't be so quick to say that we shouldn't have ever learned to do that. EDIT: w00tage! The bi-millenial mark! And I didn't even have to break a sweat! (edited by Kefka on 05-19-04 03:49 PM) |
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Silvershield Slime Level: 30 Posts: 189/345 EXP: 153029 For next: 12840 Since: 04-11-04 From: New Jersey Since last post: 60 days Last activity: 6 hours |
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Originally posted by NetSplitIn response the the text which I've put emphasis on, that's how war is, NetSplit! It is our strategic and moral responsibility to preserve the lives of our own, just as every other nation holds that same duty. If Japanese leaders had considered the lives of their citizens instead of their own inflated sense of pride, maybe the bombs never would have been dropped! |
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knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 285/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by Silvershield You say that because you are american. The way you, Weasel and a few people talk it sounds like US is the ruler of the world and everyone should follow what they want. I doubt that if someone dropped 2 atomic bombs in New York you would be saying "that's how war is".  |
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Silvershield Slime Level: 30 Posts: 193/345 EXP: 153029 For next: 12840 Since: 04-11-04 From: New Jersey Since last post: 60 days Last activity: 6 hours |
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| If an atomic attack on the United States was assured, imminent, and undefendable, I am quite positive that United States leaders would not be too arrogant and proud to refuse surrender if the tradeoff was the preservation of hundreds of thousands of civilian lives. (edited by Silvershield on 05-19-04 05:59 PM) |
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neotransotaku Baby Mario 戻れたら、 誰も気が付く Level: 87 Posts: 614/4016 EXP: 6220548 For next: 172226 Since: 03-15-04 From: Outside of Time/Space Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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Originally posted by Silvershield um...no...because the american people will cry for justice and we have an afghanistan all over again...but this time, we have world war III |
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Silvershield Slime Level: 30 Posts: 196/345 EXP: 153029 For next: 12840 Since: 04-11-04 From: New Jersey Since last post: 60 days Last activity: 6 hours |
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| neotransotaku, what I'm saying is that, if the United States and Japan had been switched in terms of who possessed the a-bomb, a ridiculous "Samurai code of honor" would not have taken precedence over hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties. Abandon any notions of subsequent revenge and whatnot; I'm trying to emphasize Japan's absurd idea that a massive life-saving concession is completely dishonorable. | |||
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neotransotaku Baby Mario 戻れたら、 誰も気が付く Level: 87 Posts: 617/4016 EXP: 6220548 For next: 172226 Since: 03-15-04 From: Outside of Time/Space Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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i see...it seems i didn't see the 45th-49th posts...otherwise, i would probably have made a different comment  as for deeper what ifs...all we can do is only speculate and see what the will of the person calling the shots would have done. |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 2011/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Well, Harry Truman essentially made the decisions himself, so unless he asked for the opinions of others to help decide, it's pretty safe to assume that there couldn't have been any other way for things to turn out. | |||
alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 648/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by Silvershield Japan didn't know that a little atom splitting would be going on that day. |
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DarkSlaya POOOOOOOOOOOORN! Level: 88 Posts: 76/4249 EXP: 6409254 For next: 241410 Since: 05-16-04 From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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Originally posted by KefkaOriginally posted by DarkSlaya But It killed alot of people. And I shall change what I said: We should'Ve not learned to use it in bombs! |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 652/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| The bomb is what gave us the ability to do most of what we do in this world. Nuclear power, deep space probes, radiological medicine, radiological pasturization |
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Silvershield Slime Level: 30 Posts: 202/345 EXP: 153029 For next: 12840 Since: 04-11-04 From: New Jersey Since last post: 60 days Last activity: 6 hours |
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Originally posted by EvillerLegionEven after we'd bombed them once, they had no idea? Surely, if they took our second warning as a bluff, that is quite a tremendous bluff to ignore! |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - Survey: The Atomic Bomb |
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