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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Lost Section - Freedom of Speech vs Harassment |
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get.  Level: 73  Posts: 214/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by hhallahh Just so you know, there's an attitude (at least on the surface, but more about that in two paragraphs or so) that people SHOULD be able to take any and all abuse at this place too, that it's part of the social context. Suffice to say, they've chased a great deal of the females away from the board, and pretty much all the newbies too.... then they complain the the board is dying due to lack of new blood... o.o The social context argument doesn't hold much water with me, I'm afraid. Particularly as one person's view of the social context of a place is almost always different to another person's. In fact, there are quite obviously varying views on the social context of the place, depending on who you talk to, how long they've been at the forum (the site's founding members are more peaceful than some of the "middlebies"), etc, etc.... Course, it may APPEAR that there's a SINGLE social context to a place, but it's more a case of the loudest people having their voices heard. Like Person A, who is definitely one of the "loud" ones and believes the social context should be.. well, negative. While the founder of the site -- who clearly holds a different ideal of what the social context should be -- is one of the less vocal members. And Eclipse, what does it matter that it's on the internet? It still hurt Person B, didn't it? Then what does it matter whether Person A said it to his face or to him via a messageboard? As for the definition of harassment, I'll use a basic legal definition of that and define it as: harassment is words, conduct, or actions directed at a specific person that annoys, alarms, or causes a lot of emotional distress for no legitimate purpose. By that definition, Person A harassed Person B. By further definitions, Person A harasses Person B with moderate frequency. He harasses several other members of the board with moderate frequency also. His harassment is always negative. And furthermore, it continues with no legitimate reason even after he is asked to desist from the harassing behaviour. But you still have missed the point, hhallahh. The question was Which is more important? Freedom of speech? Freedom from harassment? The ability to have both freedom of speech AND freedom from harassment? I am not asking about the specifics of this case, I'm asking that, in general, which do you place higher? Your freedom to call people fat, or stupid, or ugly or a bitch? Or people's freedom not to be subjected to such insults? EDIT: And again, Eclipse... no offense, but your comments are very insensitive. Some people know other people on the internet for years at a time, so they DO take comments seriously. (edited by ChibiTaryn on 05-06-04 07:05 AM) (edited by ChibiTaryn on 05-06-04 07:09 AM) (edited by ChibiTaryn on 05-06-04 07:10 AM) |
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Eclipse Red Paragoomba tinzeee Level: 13  Posts: 17/50 EXP: 8276 For next: 1991 Since: 05-03-04 Since last post: 541 days Last activity: 339 days |
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| Well I hardly know anyone on this board. None of my friends come here, i am not really an internet junky and don't really take much offence to what people say about me on net. I guess if you have friends on the net that you do know in the real world then harassment on the board is serious and maybe their should be a limit to freedom of speech. EDIT: Oh yes and please don't take offence to my comment about internet junky, i mean like i don't come on the internet much and i more like to soicalize with people face to face  |
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kiwibonga Double metal axe Level: 27  Posts: 100/266 EXP: 106040 For next: 10119 Since: 03-15-04 From: Montreal, QC, Canada Since last post: 126 days Last activity: 3 days |
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| CHIBITARYN IS A FUCKING MORON. (this is an example  )Anyone who writes that should be banned for flaming. Chibitaryn isn't very smart. Anyone who writes that should be warned, not for flaming, but for making a pejorative remark about someone. The way I see it is: something that could end up with you getting punched in the face shouldn't be said on the internet, much like it shouldn't be said in real life. The problem with freedom of speech is that in the US for example, things such as the KKK and neo nazis are allowed to exist. In many european countries (it could be the whole european union), it's against the law to promote hate speech. Allowing people to belittle others with mean remarks is promoting freedom of speech, but that would mean anyone's allowed to flame. However, that's not the case. So in that particular situation, I believe it was the right thing to do to warn the person. The person wasn't banned and should have seen it coming anyway. |
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hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38  Posts: 207/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
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| Chibitaryn isn't very smart. Anyone who writes that should be warned, not for flaming, but for making a pejorative remark about someone. That's pretty extreme. Anyways, the social context thing is relevant as far as there are different norms in different places, which there definately are. I'm really loathe to the idea that calling someone stupid or fat constitutes harassment, because it definately wouldn't a lot of places I visit. Different social context. Now, if you want to get into people's perceptions of the social context or what the social context should be, then that's a fairly more complex issue. There will always be people who either mispercieve the context, or ignore it, or seek to change it. There's not much to be said for this, because there's no "right" way to resolve such issues. I mean, they're community standards issues, which have two legitimate claims: a) The individual has the right to do as he pleases, as long as it isn't directly hurting others b) The community has the right to regulate group behavior (The word "right" is kinda nebulous, since everyone knows you don't have a "right" to freedom of speech on a message board, but usually it's an ideal that the admins will try to uphold.) Since both sides have legitimate claims, I can't address the issue in a right/wrong way... yea.... |
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Silvershield Slime Level: 30 Posts: 146/345 EXP: 153029 For next: 12840 Since: 04-11-04 From: New Jersey Since last post: 60 days Last activity: 6 hours |
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| I was hoping I'd get to it first, but Arwon's already pointed it out: in a privately-owned community, free speech is not an assured right. If someone makes you angry, you can kick 'em out and the "free speech" argument (which is often utterly idiotic, anyway) means crap. | |||
HighSorceressDelial Buzzy Beetle DDR FREAK Slayer of Beasts Savior of Worlds Eater of Napkins Level: 31  Posts: 127/380 EXP: 181041 For next: 4322 Since: 03-15-04 From: Shimmering Waters Of Avden Since last post: 9 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| I would have to say both. They shouldn't be opposing forces. The problem with the internet is that some people don't consider it real enough to treat others with respect when they normally would at least a little bit off line. That's one of the reasons I feel that good staff on sites are needed. The second someone gets harassed, the harasser needs to be dealt with. There's a difference between free speech and just insulting someone. Also, if it's reported, whoever owns the site can get in trouble if there are things like that going on that aren't supposed to be allowed. If I was heavy and someone called me fat, I'd probably be really upset by it and want it stopped. If they said that I was kinda heavy and should start working out, then that would be ok. ~Delial |
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kiwibonga Double metal axe Level: 27 Posts: 103/266 EXP: 106040 For next: 10119 Since: 03-15-04 From: Montreal, QC, Canada Since last post: 126 days Last activity: 3 days |
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Originally posted by hhallahh It's just a warning, i.e. "Don't talk like that to people" -- it's not acceptable to have to put up with people who are close minded and/or lack courtesy. |
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Crystal Shards Keese Level: 19  Posts: 52/126 EXP: 34318 For next: 1459 Since: 03-23-04 From: Ontario, Canada Since last post: 95 days Last activity: 130 days |
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| Freedom of Speech is all well and good until it starts screwing with someone's Freedom of (Religion/Press/Belief/etc). I don't think any of the fundamental freedoms- save maybe the one to live- are more important than any others, so really it's just a matter of keeping things in balance... These people- i.e. the KKK and stuff- who complain that it's their freedom of speech, don't seem to be able to get it through their heads that everyone has their fundamental freedoms, not just them, and that people are entitled to not have beliefs thrust upon them, be that physically, verbally, whatever. |
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Error Red Paragoomba Level: 13  Posts: 51/54 EXP: 9430 For next: 837 Since: 04-16-04 Since last post: 540 days Last activity: 339 days |
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| Expressing one's opinion about a fellow human being? Why that's dangerous thinking. We could only hope one day we live in a free country where we have the right to express our opinions.. oh wait.. | |||
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Sofie Level: 52 Posts: 327/1210 EXP: 1028812 For next: 55028 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 187 days Last activity: 279 days |
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| Just use some common sense. If you have any. And randomly insulting people isn't acceptable. At least have a solid reason for it. |
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Wlokos Red Paratroopa Level: 22 Posts: 73/176 EXP: 54880 For next: 3470 Since: 04-29-04 Since last post: 11 days Last activity: 10 days |
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| Harrasment and freeedom of speech are very different. In my opinion, that was harrasment and shouldn't be tolerated. | |||
Dracoon Zelda The temp ban/forum ban bypasser! Level: 84  Posts: 391/3727 EXP: 5514391 For next: 147561 Since: 03-25-04 From: At home Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| Somewhere in the constitution web sites it says your freedom of speech ends when freedom to not be harassed begins. It was something like that. I personly belive that if you are truely blunt and it is in your nature then it isnt as bad, but if you are doing it just to be mean then there is the little crossing point. Example Person A says you are fat just plain blunt and simple not ment to critisize just to state. Now even if person B does something it dhouldn't be bad. Now if it went like this Person A says I hate you and you are a fat ass (enter bad thin) Then it crosses. by the way I am very blunt but I can hide it on internet since I look over my posts a little. |
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