 |
| Register | Login | |||||
 |
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| ACS
| Commons
| Calendar
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | Color Chart | Photo album | IRC Chat |
|
| | ||
|
| Register | Login | |||||
|
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| ACS
| Commons
| Calendar
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | Color Chart | Photo album | IRC Chat |
|
| | ||
| 0 user currently in Lost Section. |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Lost Section - Freedom of Speech vs Harassment |
 |  |  |
| Pages: 1 2 | Add to favorites | "RSS" Feed | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| User | Post | ||
|
Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get.  Level: 73  Posts: 205/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
| ||
| Most of you know that I visit another forum from time to time (haven't been visiting again till recently) and again, I'm annoyed with it. Let's all bring up a completely hypothetical story based on something that really happened. Person A makes a snide and insulting comment about Person B's weight Person B gets very hurt and upset, and writes about it in their blog Admin A gives Person A a warning. Admin B and Staff A argue that the warning was unfair, because Person A has a right to free speech FormerStaff A and Staff B argue that Person A's comment was harassment, and shouldn't be tolerated. Then things went around and around in circles with nobody getting anywhere towards resolving the issue. Basically, it all turned into an argument of Free Speech, vs Harassment. The argument being that if you stop people from harassing others, you're stopping free speech. The counter argument is, of course, what about the rights of people to feel unharassed/unthreatened? But anyways, which do you feel is more important judging by how the argument seems to be going? Person A's right to free speech? or Person B's right to be unharassed on the forum? Or, are you like me, and believe that you can have free speech without hurting other people.... Bleh, the stupidity of stuff like this really does my head in. |
|||
|
Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 1389/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
| ||
| I think that you should be able to have freedom of speech, beliefs, whatever, until you are infringing on others' rights. Which "person A" seemed to be doing here. (edited by Kefka on 05-05-04 11:24 PM) |
|||
|
Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 676/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
| ||
| This is the Citadel isn't it? Why is it that you still go there yet you complain about it all the time? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything but it would seem that you should just cut off all ties with that place if it upsets you. |
|||
|
Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 208/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
| ||
| Hey, I did cut off ties for... six months or so. Then they needed a webmaster, and plus, this comment was read in my friends blog about the harassment so I went to see it for myself, because I don't like my friends being bullied. But I wasn't asking about why the Citadel pissed me off, I wanted to know if you saw: Free Speech as important Freedom of harassment as important The ability to have free speech without harassing as important. o.o |
|||
Ambigore Shyguy Level: 17 Posts: 35/95 EXP: 22388 For next: 2355 Since: 03-27-04 Since last post: 208 days Last activity: 10 days |
| ||
| Freedom of harassment is more important to me. However, freedom of speech and freedom of harassment are perfectly compatible if we segregate the jerks from the enlightened. That's what I'd do if I ruled the world. | |||
|
Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 209/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
| ||
I'd vote for you anyways, Ambigore.  (I still like your other idea about mercy-killing the stupid.... like Cloud Strife, for example  )And yeah, I agree that freedom of speech and freedom from harassment are both pretty compatible things, it's not like it's some dichotomy or something... what got me is the way that so many people (not just the Citadel, it seems to be something about this intarweb thingie in general) can't see how the two can coexist.  |
|||
|
Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 677/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
| ||
| I can't answer this question without knowing if we're referring to the internet or anywhere other than the internet. ? |
|||
hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38  Posts: 203/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
| ||
| It really depends on the context of the quote. One man's harassment could be another man's constructive criticism, or something. In general, I tend to be pretty tilted towards freedom of speech, as long as the comments aren't explicitly supposed to be disruptive / harmful. If someone says "wow, you're fat", then... they're just pointing something out. They're being an asshole about it, but they're still just pointing out a fact. But if they say something like "haha you're a stupid fatass" or something, they've kinda crossed a line. Yea. There are no firm rules for such things, and generally they have to be dealt with on a subjective case-by-case basis. |
|||
|
Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 210/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
| ||
| See, personally I'd find even "wow you're fat" to be insulting. Remember also that if you are overweight, or crazy (I'm crazy, btw) or have glasses or red hair or something else stupid that society tends to make a thing out of.... you've probably had it "pointed out to you" a million times before during your life, and you probably then have a bit of a complex/insecurity about it. And one more person going "wow you're fat" is not what you need. I generally tend to regard these things with a "would you say it to the person's face" thing when talking about the intarweb. If you think about actually being face to face with that person (or any person for that matter) would you REALLY say "wow, you're fat" to them? I've had lots of people call me crazy on the web and think that it's okay to do that, but I haven't had anybody call me that to my face. Why are our manners less online than they would be in real life? (edited by ChibiTaryn on 05-06-04 01:15 AM) |
|||
|
Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 1404/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
| ||
Originally posted by ChibiTaryn I personally find redheads attractive, I dunno about you.  I wouldn't consider them "outcasts" by any means. |
|||
|
hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38 Posts: 204/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
| ||
| Anonymity has interesting social consequences. *shrug* Some good, some bad. The "would you say it IRL" is an interesting rule of thumb, but I don't really think it's a good one. People are a lot more candid online, which isn't necessarily a terrible thing. "Wow, you're fat" would probably be insulting, yes, but... you can't equate insulting to harassment. Because some people are a lot more sensitive than others, and it can get kind of ridiculous coddling those people. Generally, the admins will try to set a standard appropriate for the type of people at the board. Whether something is insulting or not is largely determined by the social context... "wow, you're fat" at one board could be a disruptive insult, and at a different one it would just be another comment. (edited by hhallahh on 05-06-04 01:32 AM) |
|||
|
Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 212/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
| ||
| For the record, the comment about weight in this respect was the culmination of several, escalating, non-personal related insulting remarks, and the weight one was the final, PERSONAL insulting one. I call it "harassment" though because this is NOT an isolated incident. Person A is frequently insulting to a selective group of people on the forum, and it impacts negatively on those people. This particular incident is just the one that got Person A a warning. As for sensitive people, why do you have to coddle them? Is it so hard to -- if you know somebody's buttons -- just not to push those buttons? Being coddled SUCKS. Kinda like having somebody brownnose you, it makes you feel icky and wrong. As a sensitive person, I'd just rather that people were a little more respectful towards my insecurities... like my mental illness. An "If you don't have something constructive to say about it, shut the fuck up" approach. The Online world is more candid, and in some ways that IS a good thing, but I don't think that things like personal insults are a good thing. I don't think telling somebody that they are fat just because you can -- because you're anonymous -- is a good thing. I just think the problem is that we've forgotten our Netiquette. Netiquette doesn't take away from free speech at all. But it does encourage you to remember that there is always a person on the other end of your computer screen, and act accordingly. The "Would You Say It To Their Face?" rule. (An important part of the first rule of Netiquette) (edited by ChibiTaryn on 05-06-04 01:59 AM) |
|||
|
Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 1406/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
| ||
| For a "nutcase" as you like to call yourself, you sure think logically and deep. |
|||
|
Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 213/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
| ||
| Eh, I'm not really a nutcase. I'm clinically depressed. But because that is technically a mental illness, people think that that means that I'm crazy. And a lot of people are quite mean about it, to tell the truth. Anyways, have a lookie at the Netiquette guide. It's pretty intarweb old-skool, but I think it's relevant. You CAN have candidity and free speech without making other people feel like shiat. I just want to know why it's so effing hard for people to actually think about others before they let their fingers do the talking.... |
|||
Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143  Posts: 697/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
| ||
Originally posted by ChibiTaryn Hmm...you (edited by Millennium Neko on 05-06-04 04:07 AM) (edited by Millennium Neko on 05-06-04 04:09 AM) |
|||
|
hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38 Posts: 205/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
| ||
| Eh, I'll fall back more strongly on the "social context" response. A lot of the places I visit, calling someone fat would be meaningless, and if you got upset over it, people would think less of you (suffice to say, there are few females at the particular board I'm thinking of.) But I like it there best, because people aren't thin-skinned and you can say whatever witty-yet-shitty thing you please. Of course, this doesn't apply everywhere. I wouldn't go so far as to call "wow, you're fat" harassment, unless you follow a particular person around, targeting them. Generally, harassment would meet two conditions: a) The person pays special attention to you because you're you b) The person's attention towards you is especially negative Of course, what constitutes "especially negative" really depends on the board's norms. Hence, "wow, you're fat" may constitute harassment at one board but not another. And if it's just a passing comment from a random person who is generally a jerk to anyone, that wouldn't really be harassment either. |
|||
Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 61/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
| ||
| Wait, since when is "free speech" a right on a private message board? It's not a right on a private forum owned by someone. Meanwhile, didn't the person, when they registered, agree to a user agreement? Didn't that agreement include part about not harrassing to other members? If they're breaking said agreement, then they're in the wrong, eh? So I guess the answer is that the harassing person is an ass, and doesn't have a leg to stand on. |
|||
Eclipse Red Paragoomba tinzeee Level: 13  Posts: 12/50 EXP: 8276 For next: 1991 Since: 05-03-04 Since last post: 541 days Last activity: 339 days |
| ||
I believe everyone has a right to free speech and to not be harrased. But i seriously would have to agree with person A as its on the computer no-one really cares what people look like unless your looking for love on the internet. Maybe if this happened like not on computers and like face to face then person A should be warned or punished. My though anyway |
|||
Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 1431/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
| ||
Originally posted by ChibiTarynSomeone actually insulted me in that way on this board (your fat!). But he was banned. Still I actually found it insulting... I am easily insulted even if I don't always express it.  Free speech is one of t he most important things yes, but on the other hand there is common sense. Going around and call somebody things is not good... And people can sue newspapres for what they write in thier papers, basically I wouldn't be surprised if someday someone sued somebody becuse he/she flamed him. (edited by Kitten Yiffer on 05-06-04 06:51 AM) |
|||
|
Eclipse Red Paragoomba tinzeee Level: 13 Posts: 16/50 EXP: 8276 For next: 1991 Since: 05-03-04 Since last post: 541 days Last activity: 339 days |
| ||
| OK serious problem if you take offence from someone flaming at you on the "computer". It's not nice if someone flames at you on the computer but you would get over it, its not like they know you. Their just being idiots, this would be another issue if it happened in a work place or school, because then you would have to phyically live with it. And because your on the computer you seriously cannot take things serious on here. They could have ment calling you something for fun or a joke or they might even really mean it, we seriously don't know |
| Pages: 1 2 | Add to favorites | "RSS" Feed | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Lost Section - Freedom of Speech vs Harassment |
| | |
