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| 0 user currently in World Affairs / Debate. |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Smoking or Non Smoking |
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Legault Bot Level: 24  Posts: 157/269 EXP: 78075 For next: 50 Since: 12-24-04 From: Schools out...YES!!! Summer vacation. Since last post: 13 days Last activity: 4 days |
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| I however think that non-smoking places are okay in some ways. Pro The place and food don't smell like cigarettes, can take kids there and don't have to worry about second hand smoke. Con: People are left out because they have to go outside and smoke(even though it is not good for their health they are addicted), Not equal rights for both groups involved. What are some of your thoughtts on this? |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 4387/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| I don't mind not being able to smoke inside establishments, even restraunts. But bars? That's taking it WAY too far. | |||
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Legault Bot Level: 24 Posts: 159/269 EXP: 78075 For next: 50 Since: 12-24-04 From: Schools out...YES!!! Summer vacation. Since last post: 13 days Last activity: 4 days |
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| Exactly, Pretty much every movie that you see that has a bar everyone is smoking and those who aren't sure as hell aren't complaining. For instance Hutchison,Ks you can't smoke in any of the establishments. | |||
alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 4113/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I don't smoke. I don't care. Either way, it's a non-issue for me. I just hate going to concerts and dicks having their cigarettes burning in mosh pits. |
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Legault Bot Level: 24 Posts: 161/269 EXP: 78075 For next: 50 Since: 12-24-04 From: Schools out...YES!!! Summer vacation. Since last post: 13 days Last activity: 4 days |
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| Yes those are "Cigarettes" in those mosh pits. But anyway maybe some places it could be legal and some places not. Like legal in Bars and such like that And illegal in retaurants, but stil don't any of you see that isn't really fair. Of course what in this country truly is fair. | |||
Rydain Ropa Blaze Phoenix Runs With the Dragon Within Level: 42  Posts: 596/738 EXP: 490056 For next: 31306 Since: 03-15-04 From: State College, PA Since last post: 6 days Last activity: 8 hours |
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| I'm against government-issued smoking bans because it's not Big Brother's job to play nanny. Granted, smoke can harm people with certain health problems, but so can perfume (some people have allergic reactions to it), and I don't see teh gubmint going after that. It's not as if indoor smoke is necessarily forced upon everyone just because it's legal. Individual venues are (and should be) free to decide their own policies according to how it affects their business, and since businesses exist to make money, it is in their best interest to cater to people as well as they can (including those who can't stand smoke), so I think the market takes care of the issue just fine and dandy. Some places around here are pretty clever, generally allowing smoking but having designated nonsmoking times to attract customers who want to go out but are bothered by smoke. For instance, the bowling alley is smoke-free during the day on the weekends (which is when families with kids tend to go, and most parents don't like exposing the kids to smoke), but during times when an older and/or more rowdy crowd shows up, people can smoke all they damn well please. I smoke very rarely and when I do, it's always a clove (which some smoking-permitted venues don't even allow), so I really don't care about whether or not some place allows smoking. I just get irritated by policies put in place to protect the unwashed masses from themselves. |
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NSNick Laidback Admin Level: 85  Posts: 2406/3875 EXP: 5895841 For next: 2699 Since: 03-15-04 From: North Side School: OSU Since last post: 9 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| I echo Rydain's sentiments. Columbus recently passed a no-smoking ban, and while I don't smoke (except occasionally when drunk), it still irks me because these are private establishments being told how to run their businesses. If you don't like smoke, don't go to a bar that allows smoking. | |||
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 8642/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Funny you should mention that, as Quebec's set to ratify their new anti-smoking laws either this week or next week. The laws themselves are said to be extremely strict, ranging from not being able to smoke within nine meters of an educational building/hospital/etc. (which is likely not going to be enforced from day one) to banning smoking in restaurants and bars. I don't have a problem with the restaurants. I think that being able to enjoy a smoke-free meal isn't too much to ask, and I'd certainly appreciate that.  But with the bars... Quebec's probably one of the few places where you can SUCCESSFULLY make the claim that no smoking in bars = greatly reduced business and bar closings. I know of one bar/grill around here that has a non-smoking section, and even then it's only non-smoking at certain times of the day; I've never been in a non-smoking bar. I'm not saying that makes it right, but it's one of those things that makes you wonder why they couldn't have found any middle ground... say, allow a portion of the bar to be set aside for smoking but only if the owner's willing to pay for a government approved ventilation system. Do a 50/50 or 60/40 split.In short, I can see this law being *adjusted* within two years if business goes south here. The only concession that our health minister's making is that he originally wanted to put the ban in place in January. One would assume that the bar/restaurant owners pressured him enough to push it back to May 2006. (Because after all, if smoking's still permitted on patios/gazebos, then it's a less painful transition throughout the summer before the bitter cold hits in come November/December.) |
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neotransotaku Baby Mario 戻れたら、 誰も気が付く Level: 87 Posts: 3224/4016 EXP: 6220548 For next: 172226 Since: 03-15-04 From: Outside of Time/Space Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| I don't care if people smoke--just don't do it around me. If I'm trailing someone on the street that is smoking, instead of me asking them to move, I just run around them since it will cause the least amount of trouble. I'm still not sure the logic behind smoking because for many of you, you are asking for early death but whatever. The city my university is in passed an ordinance where smoking is prohibited withint 20 feet of public building but I rarely see that enforced. I also agree on not having government get involved in imposing restrictions since I believe their time is better spent dealing with other issues. |
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Sandy53215 Acmlm (10:55:31 PM): they're having fun for the first time in so long Level: 47  Posts: 631/948 EXP: 713034 For next: 53169 Since: 03-15-04 From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin (U.S.A) Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by NSNick I agree deeply with both Rydain and NSNick. Being told how to run your business.... that really sucks I could imagine. Whats next determining each persons salary? |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34  Posts: 369/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| I personally think any sort of "family" establishment should be non-smoking... however, the moment it becomes exclusive... say a bar (ie 18+ only) or the like.... then people should be allowed to do as they please in those situations.... within lawful constraint |
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hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38  Posts: 574/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
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| Individual businesses should be able to set their own rules. If you don't like them, eat elsewhere. That's how it's supposed to work. | |||
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NSNick Laidback Admin Level: 85 Posts: 2413/3875 EXP: 5895841 For next: 2699 Since: 03-15-04 From: North Side School: OSU Since last post: 9 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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Originally posted by hhallahh Exactly. If a bar/grill wants to appeal to an under-18 crowd, then don't allow smoking. |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 303/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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| If a bar wants to appeal to the under 18 crowd its going to have to do more than offer a nonsmoking section... Has anyone considered the Health and Safety issues here... the people who work in bars have to spend hours in a smokey, potentially carcinogenic working environment. It isn't all just about the patrons. Still undecided on the issue but no-one seems to have even thoguht of the staff's point of view. |
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NSNick Laidback Admin Level: 85 Posts: 2414/3875 EXP: 5895841 For next: 2699 Since: 03-15-04 From: North Side School: OSU Since last post: 9 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| The same goes for the staff. If you don't want to be around smoke, don't work in a bar that allows smoking. | |||
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Cymoro PATRICK DUFFY WILL LASER YOUR SOUL   Level: 67  Posts: 1731/2216 EXP: 2549743 For next: 43129 Since: 03-15-04 From: Cymoro Gaming Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| New York City recently passed anti-smoking laws for any establishment that serves food, including bars. Honestly, I think including bars into the whole mix is just a bad idea, and whatever happens to NYC affects the Island. Fuck you, Bloomberg. | |||
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 8663/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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...So are any bars going to manage to skirt the ban if they decide to stop serving food, or never have before in the past?  Quebec's ban will likely come into effect on May 31, 2006 according to reports; that's coincidentally World No Tobacco Day. One wonders exactly if any exceptions will be given out, although considering how the health minister's been talking about the bill, that's highly unlikely. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 4132/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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It hasn't really hurt business at all around here. Most places have simply set up a covered/heated smoker's area.  |
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Rydain Ropa Blaze Phoenix Runs With the Dragon Within Level: 42 Posts: 602/738 EXP: 490056 For next: 31306 Since: 03-15-04 From: State College, PA Since last post: 6 days Last activity: 8 hours |
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Originally posted by ArwonI have, but I haven't come to any conclusions. If the staff doesn't mind, then it's obviously a moot point. I think the answer of telling people to seek employment elsewhere doesn't work as well as letting customers decide which businesses to patronize. Oftentimes people are stuck at a job, whereas Joe or Jane Consumer can find someplace else to go for dinner if they don't want to sit in smoke (or, conversely, if they want to light one up). I also think that workers should be reasonably protected from workplace hazards, and I have no problem with the idea of government-enforced safety in this regard because, from what I've seen, it is necessary. Companies can and do cut costs at the risk of people's life and health when they think they can get away with it. Read Fast Food Nation for some truly sick examples of how slaughterhouse workers are treated as expendable. However, I'm not convinced that secondhand smoke is as dangerous as often claimed. The Skeptic's Dictionary has a page with a variety of links on the subject. Some are dead, but there's enough interesting reading there to peruse. It seems to me that allowing staff to have more influence over their work environment would be the best compromise. (I also think that this is a Good Idea(tm) in general.) |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 8675/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Ziff: How does that work in the winter? Because here, I could see some restaurants downtown doing that, but bars... hm. Lots of the outdoor patios are in the back of bars and I can't exactly see how they'd manage that feat. Based on what I've read, however, the conventional wisdom is that smoking would still be allowed on patios whenever a place of business decides to set them up. That's likely why the ban's coming in effect on May 31, when the weather's warmed up... as opposed to January 1, which would see a hell of a profit drop over the winter. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Smoking or Non Smoking |
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