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2 users currently in General Chat:  Dark Vampriel |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - I am annoyed at the Programming Forum |
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Teundusia Lantern Ghost Level: 41 Posts: 329/760 EXP: 449109 For next: 31036 Since: 07-31-04 Since last post: 15 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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| How come when I ask for help with VB I get told "don't learn that, learn C or C++" but when someone else does they actually get the help they need??? It really annoys me when i ask a simple question about it and get a big arguement over which i should learn? *Glares at Disch as he types this post* (edited by RYjet911 on 05-21-05 05:41 AM) |
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Tamarin Calanis We exist. Earth exists. The universe exists. Do we really need to know why? Level: 59 Posts: 537/1802 EXP: 1672751 For next: 377 Since: 07-12-04 From: The gas station on the corner... Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| Because the world is filled with assholes who would rather make smartass remarks than provide real help? Hey, just a possibility. |
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Xeolord - B l u e s - Power Metal > All Level: 81  Posts: 1890/3418 EXP: 4884196 For next: 108653 Since: 03-15-04 From: Yeah Since last post: 15 hours Last activity: 15 hours |
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| Thus, let's hope for a possibly good Programming Forum Moderator. | |||
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Kyoufu Kawa I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way. Level: 70  Posts: 1561/2481 EXP: 3008456 For next: 7355 Since: 03-19-04 From: Catgirl Central Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by Darth XeodiousHmm.... |
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Sukasa Boomboom Error 349857348734534: The system experienced an error. Level: 57  Posts: 640/1981 EXP: 1446921 For next: 39007 Since: 02-06-05 From: *Shrug* Since last post: 6 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| Then officially, I vote for Hyperhacker, alias R2H2, for mod there. He would do good. | |||
Ramsus Octoballoon Level: 19 Posts: 67/162 EXP: 34651 For next: 1126 Since: 01-24-05 From: United States Since last post: 39 days Last activity: 71 days |
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| Ask specific questions about specific coding problems. It shows that you already know the language, and thus are no longer in the market for choosing a language. Asking for beginner tutorials for any language is what usually leads to language wars. |
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Sukasa Boomboom Error 349857348734534: The system experienced an error. Level: 57 Posts: 652/1981 EXP: 1446921 For next: 39007 Since: 02-06-05 From: *Shrug* Since last post: 6 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| Well, he did say he was using VB. personally, I would check the microsoft help file. I learned alll of what I know by experimentation and checking the help file. | |||
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Ramsus Octoballoon Level: 19 Posts: 68/162 EXP: 34651 For next: 1126 Since: 01-24-05 From: United States Since last post: 39 days Last activity: 71 days |
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| The only language wars I've ever seen are usually from people asking for either tutorials or advice on which language to learn. Having a stickied thread in the programming forum with links to good tutorials should help a lot in preventing long debates over what language is better for whatever. That, and throwing out VB code or a VB specific problem always seems to scare away the C/C++ types. Personally, I'm rather fond of books, especially when the official documentation for something isn't very good. Programming books can get really spendy though, and most local libraries don't have any good ones. It's always worth taking a look though, and that $50 investment could end up paying big one day. For studying up on things like software architecture, compiler design, abstract data types, data mining, etc., a good book can be infinitely better than almost anything you'd find online. Nothing replaces trying and doing though. Sharing code and collaborating with others helps a lot too. |
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Teundusia Lantern Ghost Level: 41 Posts: 341/760 EXP: 449109 For next: 31036 Since: 07-31-04 Since last post: 15 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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| Well I'm not using the Microsoft one, I'm using a free compiler for VB.NET. It doesn't have a tutorial with it and ive been searching for a while, but cant find any beginner ones... Anyway, my only problem with people at the programming forum is that they don't seem to want to help me when I only asked if anyone knew where I can get VB.NET beginner tutorials. I understand that C and C++ are a lot better because they can be multi platform rather than only windows. But I really want to learn VB.NET as one of my friends knows it quite well and says it is a good language too... it's just people always go "if you learn VB/VB.NET first you have to forget about subs and whatever". Who said I want to learn something else after it? Yes I would also like to learn C++ too, but I am a good forgetter. I can easily forget things that I need to forget. Just I wish there could have been soemone who would actually help me and not argue over whether I should learn another language |
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Ramsus Octoballoon Level: 19 Posts: 69/162 EXP: 34651 For next: 1126 Since: 01-24-05 From: United States Since last post: 39 days Last activity: 71 days |
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| Chances are nobody in that forum really knows of any good VB.NET beginner tutorials. Look for some on Google, then consider buying a book on VB.NET game development (I saw on in my engineering library, so I know they're out there). If you can't find any resources, look at what language/tools you CAN find resources for and just get started with that (#1 reason for choosing a first language should be availability of good resources). Sitting around wishing for help does nothing. I've NEVER had to ask for any help, because if you learn how to look a little deeper, the answer's usually already available. If it isn't, you check to see if maybe you're missing the big picture. Why sit around waiting hours or even days for someone to answer your question for you? Besides, what about your friend? If he knows what to do just ask him to help you get everything set up and show you how to use your compiler. Ask him how he learned the language. I also wouldn't suggest using VB.NET as a first language unless you're using the Microsoft tools. Most beginner tutorials would assume you use them, since things like Mono are mostly used by more experienced developers (or at least, people used to using a commandline and maybe Makefiles) and aren't as geared towards development on Windows. There aren't a lot of tutorials for things like that, because it's assumed you know what you're doing. As a beginner, that's always the first sign you should use something else. Besides, what defines a good beginner tutorial? What may be good for one person to begin with might be bad for someone else. It depends on how you learn, and more importantly, on what you're learning it for. Beginner books are geared towards all sorts of subjects with all sorts of languages, from CGI programming in Perl and simple game programming in Basic, to 3D game programming in C++ and Text Processing in Python. As long as you have something that focuses on what you're interested in, you're that much more likely to STAY interested and follow through. |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61  Posts: 1574/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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Originally posted by Grey Jedi Cheveyo For someone who knows nothing of programming, you have no justification to post this. They were providing real help. However, you were asking for something that could be found easily, with Google.  |
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Tamarin Calanis We exist. Earth exists. The universe exists. Do we really need to know why? Level: 59 Posts: 538/1802 EXP: 1672751 For next: 377 Since: 07-12-04 From: The gas station on the corner... Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| It's in the General forum, so obviously having some knowledge of programming is not a prerequisite for replying. Now, I wouldn't have posted it if this were in the PROGRAMMING forum, but guess what? IT ISN'T! Wow, I never would have guessed! |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 1582/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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But your post still made a statement that would require the authority of someone who knew what they were talking about, regardless of the forum it was posted in.  |
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Sukasa Boomboom Error 349857348734534: The system experienced an error. Level: 57 Posts: 698/1981 EXP: 1446921 For next: 39007 Since: 02-06-05 From: *Shrug* Since last post: 6 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| For someone who has no knowledge of VB, he is trying to learn. try helping him for once. | |||
dan Snap Dragon Level: 43  Posts: 582/782 EXP: 534516 For next: 30530 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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Originally posted by windwakerOriginally posted by Grey Jedi Cheveyo Since when does programming knowledge have anything to do with judging that people are being assholes? |
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Teundusia Lantern Ghost Level: 41 Posts: 372/760 EXP: 449109 For next: 31036 Since: 07-31-04 Since last post: 15 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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| "Since when does programming knowledge have anything to do with judging that people are being assholes?" since never Anyway it's only the fact that rather than help, they gave me several COMPLETELY DIFFERENT options, ones which I didn't want to do, and that has steered the thread away from it's original purpose, so now it's a huge discussion on C++, not whether someone can help me with VB.NET tutorials EDIT: I clicked post to quickly Also, they also say things like "search on google" nearly all the time. DO THEY THINK I HAVE SOMETHING SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH ME THAT DISABLES ME FROM USING SEARCH ENGINES??? It is comon sense to me that I should search through google and a couple of other search engines before asking others on a board. It also annoys me when they say "Oh i searched on google for two minutes and found something" but then fail to tell you the site they found or what u should search for (edited by RYjet911 on 05-22-05 12:31 AM) |
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Kyoufu Kawa I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way. Level: 70 Posts: 1569/2481 EXP: 3008456 For next: 7355 Since: 03-19-04 From: Catgirl Central Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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| Having finally read the full thread regarding VB.NET tutorials, I think I'll basically agree with the annoyment thing. I remember a -lot- of goddamn Holy Wars in that forum. Bad karma they are. I'm not just annoyed at the Programming Forum... it pisses me off. Disch and all you other C Zealots should just shut the hell up and answer VB questions, no matter if it's 6 or .NET, with actual VB answers, or don't reply at all. Ken Silverman, creator of the BUILD engine and other such neatness, uses QuickBasic 4.5 to develop his algorithms to this very day. Can't say using Basic has crippled him. Hasn't crippled me either. *Kawa-oneechan edits his mod application post to include "Programming". (edited by Kawa-oneechan on 05-22-05 02:14 AM) |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 1584/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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Originally posted by danOriginally posted by windwakerOriginally posted by Grey Jedi Cheveyo Knowing if they're helping your or not. LIKE SAYING VB ISN'T A GOOD IDEA. Let's move onto some irony, shall we? Can't say using Basic has crippled him. Hasn't crippled me either. Who said anything about Basic? Basic = good programming theory, VB != good programming theory. Get that right, and don't confuse the two. --- Disch and all you other C Zealots should just shut the hell up and answer VB questions, no matter if it's 6 or .NET, with actual VB answers, or don't reply at all. 1) he wanted TUTORIALS. HE COULD FIND THEM WITH A GOOGLE SEARCH. 2) They were helping him. Kawa, do you have the mental capacity to understand that they were helping him. If he ever wants to do more with a programming language, getting to tied into VB is bad. It's horrible programming theory, and in the long run will not have helped him. (edited by windwaker on 05-22-05 03:49 AM) |
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neotransotaku Baby Mario 戻れたら、 誰も気が付く Level: 87 Posts: 3058/4016 EXP: 6220548 For next: 172226 Since: 03-15-04 From: Outside of Time/Space Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| I agree with kawa's perspective. Program languages are just tools. It's your choice to say which tool you want to use to accomplish your task. For example, there are two ways to nail stuff in the world, to use a hammer or a nail gun. If you are nailing one thing, then a hammer should be just fine. But if you are going to build a deck, then maybe a nail gun would be better. Programming languages are just the same. There are certain things that make VB easier to use than C and vice versa. However, if you can use C to do what VB or any other language gives you, then good for you because I don't care. But yeah, if people ask for help for a language, give them help in that language. You can suggest that another language can make it easier for the person but it is in the end up to the person you asked for help to decided whether to try that route. If they choose not to go with your suggestion, then shut up and either help the person with the way they want to be helped or move on. | |||
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 1585/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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| Well, I agree with that for the most part, although Disch did nothing wrong. If anyone did anything wrong, it was RYjet911 for asking for tutorials that could be found easily with Google. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - I am annoyed at the Programming Forum |
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