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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Yay Patriotism! |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34  Posts: 354/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| It's a little long, but definately something to think about... (edited by Emperor Ziffatine on 05-15-05 07:26 AM) |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 3731/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| I was going to quote the parts I liked and wanted to emphasize on but I found that I would pretty much have to paste the whole article here. Many a "a-fucking-men" came to my mind. Outstanding article that perfectly nails it right on the head. I can think of one person who needs to read this and take it to heart. His name rhymes with "Michael Moore". Just so we're clear on this, you do promote this article in a positive light right? I ask because I've been thrown for some big surprises with some people on this board. I'll read something that makes perfect sense and couldn't be stated better and some people will think it's the worst thing ever written. I'm sure someone will try their hardest to find something wrong with this despite it's perfection.  (edited by Legion on 05-14-05 07:45 PM) |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 1824/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| Well I found it to be nearly what I expected. Some responses to selected parts: For the most part, liberals who cry racism at every turn are racists themselves, choosing to exploit the issue of skin color whenever they feel it will afford them some sort of political or social advantage. In fact, they are even more dangerous, potentially, than neo-Nazis or the KKK, because they don't admit they're racists. At least you know a skinhead when you see one. I've seen this sort of rhetoric before, and frankly I think it's a load of bullshit. This only applies to politicians, and the grand majority of people are not politicians. And the statement that they are more DANGEROUS THAN NEONAZIS OR THE KKK IS SIMPLY RETARDED. Some explanation for that remark is in order, though the rest of it makes sense, in some way. How are they more dangerous to minorities than the people who want to KILL THEM? Patriotic Americans also understand that you can't build up your country if you spend all your time trying to tear it down, and I've yet to meet a liberal who hasn't attempted to wreck some aspect of American culture at some point in their lives. This... just doesn't make sense at all. It paints a picture of liberals as being nihilists, who want to totally destroy America. But they are usually progressives who actually want to change it for the better. Sometimes culture has to change with the times, I would hope most people would agree with this at least in some cases. Either way, I choose to not be openly patriotic b/c I don't get enthused about it, really. Being a citizen of a country is like being in a family. You're born in to it, so you really can't go against it, or you're branded a traitor. It's your default team, and you have to root for it. Patriotism in this country is born of the understanding that we are among the most honorable and decent people on earth, in spite of our flaws, and it's kept alive by an overwhelming desire to make sure that our children are left with at least as much freedom and prosperity as we enjoy. The above is a matter of opinion. I personally believe it to be true, but I'm sure a citizen of nearly every country in the world would hold the same view of their own people. edit: I think the article would have more kick if it named some names; just leveling these claims at the broad term 'liberals" reduces it to a ridiculous generalization of a lot of people. However, i'm not totally ripping on the article, b/c I can see where the writer is coming from. (edited by MathOnNapkins on 05-14-05 08:07 PM) |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 355/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| Legion: yes, it's a positive thing for me.... | |||
alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 3805/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| The other day I heard a liberal assert that patriotism is really just xenophobia wearing a happy face, and that people who wave the flag and shout "God bless America" are nothing but ignorant fools, full of false pride and hatred for foreign cultures. You know, I've never once heard a "liberal" say that. And I'm a stinking pinko. On the left side of the fence, it is asserted that NATIONALISM, the concept of the epousal of the nation as a race that is required for the world to work is bad. Moreover, nationalism's dangerous little brother jingoism is the big no-no. Claiming that your nation has the inherent RIGHT and RESPONSIBILITY to wage war for wars sake in the name of the nation. That's bad. Anyone who thinks that that isn't bad is...In need of a history text book. This attitude is typical of many left-wingers these days, and it's not too hard to understand how they could arrive at such a conclusion. They're extremely ignorant people, who are unable to appreciate the fact that many of their fellow citizens have a deep, unwavering love for their country, and the basic moral rightness for which it stands. Eh? What? The NDP, the Socialist International wing in Canada is the patriotic party of the nation. Whereas the Conservative Party has mandated deeper integration with the US, the NDP wants to protect the nation's culture and preserve Canada's soverignty as its own nation. I'd say it's extremely ignorant to make vast, sweeping generalizations about everyone on one side of the fence here. Moreover, to assume that the majority people who love their country are sitting on the right of the fence is again a little sketchy. And then to assume that it is a basic moral to be patriotic is again pretty darned sketchy. After all, it's difficult to appreciate the greatness of America unless one understands its history, and liberals are sorely lacking in that sort of education. Take, for instance, the liberal contention that the United States is no better than any other nation, because some Americans used to be slave owners, and our government once wiped out entire populations of American indians. Well, in the first place, slavery, while it was a truly obscene practice, only lasted in this country for a little over 80 years, which is far less than it lasted in virtually every other country on the planet. And whatever you may think about the issue, never forget that hundreds of thousands of Americans sacrificed their lives in order to put an end to it. Just a point on the first sentence. Traditionally "liberals" as they are called in America are noted to be the historians and other people who study the arts and hard sciences. So, I don't quite understand how pegging everyone on one side of the fence as uneducated helps the argument at hand. On an agreeable note though is the commendable action that America took to wipe out the Southern and Northern slave owners. But to say that the Civil War of America was simply about slavery to make a point is a fairly ignorant thing to do. Due to the complex issues surrounding the various battles and the actual beginning of hte war I don't think its fair to reduce it to a slight of a single issue. As far as killing off the indigenous people of this continent is concerned, it's not like they were all just sitting around minding their own business when we attacked them. Yeah, we went to war against the indians, and some of the things we did were vicious, ugly, and unjust, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking that they were all virtuous innocent bystanders. The indians did a whole lot of slaughtering themselves, not only of white people, but of other indians long before we ever showed up, so I think it's only appropriate that we try to maintain just a little bit of perspective on the matter. Gah!? First off, using the term "indian" is just completely degrading and lowered the article to pish-posh in my eyes. It should be noted that People of the First Nations or Native are what they ought to be called. But to say that "Oh, it is okay that we killed the aboriginals of this nation because they were already doing it" is not okay. Nor is reducing the fact that the systematic slaughter of the natives all across North America and throughout South America due to their "attacking us" is okay. The French-Indian War (proper historical name of the beginning of the North American front of the Seven Years War in the US) was instigated by the French against the British in the Ohio Valley and the 13 Colonies to degrade British control. After the war was won by the Brits over the French in Quebec and the Revolutionary War was fought we came to a big problem. Both governments the British and the Americans came to a sort of agreement in regarding the natives, better dead than nothing. The English in Canada attempted to alleviate problems after Chief Pontiac began a rebellion with his Ottawa tribe and most of the other Iriquoian tribes. The Americans on the other hand instituted movements against the natives hat are comparable to genocide. Rather than try to bargain with the original owners of the land, the American government encouraged settlers on the Western frontiers to attack natives leading to an escalated war coalescing into the Cherokee rebellions. Its a big and problematic issue that can't be discussed in anything less than scholarly essays to say the least. But a historical backing would've been nice in the context of the article. You know, for perspective. Either way, reducing a very brutal conflict to a "well, they did it too" is pretty damned sad. At least he didn't bring up scalping, which is a European practise. There's also the leftist view that America is not the great nation that the patriots among us believe it to be, because equality has not been achieved among all its citizens. What they fail to understand is that there is no such thing as absolute equality among people. There never has been, nor will there ever be. It's a practical impossibility. I suppose this person hasn't spoken to a leftist after 1945. Things changed quite drastically and he is calling everyone from Socialists to Social Democrats Communists. Which is dead wrong. Simply possessing the same rights as everyone else does not, in any way, guarantee a person equality of outcome in any endeavor, nor can laws change the fact that some people are superior to others in all sorts of ways. Is there any question that some folks are smarter than most of us, more athletic, more artistic, more motivated, or more physically attractive to the general population? Of course not. Why then should we assume that everyone is capable of achieving the same level of economic success in their lives? Indeed, what makes liberals think that there aren't some people who are completely undeserving of success, due to their own lack of hard work? I can't really disagree with this at all, but I think that the point attempting to be made is "Why bother trying for equality?". I find this somewhat problematic, because the US is founded on John Locke's principal of "all men are born equal". I don't quite agree with that. But I think that as a society, it should be a part of life to try to help each other out rather than trying to further one's self. The only equality anyone can ask for is equality under the law, and if some other country has a better system of justice than ours, I'd like to hear about it. Norway Sweden Canada Finland The Netherlands Belgium France England Italy Germany Austria Argentina The list goes on. Left-wingers also whine endlessly about American imperialism, even though they clearly have no grasp of what that term implies. If the United States was an imperialist nation, the Cold War never would have happened, because we would have obliterated the Soviet Union in 1945, and then established American-style governments and economic systems in every country we felt like controlling. No nation on earth was in a position to challenge us once we developed nuclear weapons, but we didn't set about taking over the world, because modern Americans are not conquerors, we're liberators. Danger Will Robinson, danger. Strawman Will Robinson! Perhaps this laddy outta read up on the Phillipines, Guam, Japanese-American relations, the Middle East and America, South and Central America in relation to America from 1890-2000 and other topics. I just find this argument bogus. Because there are tonnes of problems. American-style governments and economic systems were placed in every nation that America could get to. African nations for example were put through this in the Soviet-American game of cat and mouse. And the obliteration of the Soviet Union? I'm sorry, but it would've been a teensy bit harder to nuke Moscow, Kiev, Svestpool, Warsaw, Leningrad or any other major Soviet city due to having A: the logistical problems of the time. B: the strong Soviet anti-air defences. Japan was a battered nation with no defences against the air. Just a pissed of citizenry that would've made it dangerous to land American troops for a full-scale invasion. Thus, it was pretty much a cake walk to bomb Hiroshima (which wasn't even a stronghold of any military form) and the Bay of Nagasaki (which was devestated already). Either way, the Soviets were highly imperialistic with their dealings around the world, but equally nasty was America. No nation is innocent. Still, few liberals are willing to make the sort of moral distinctions necessary to differentiate between countries like this one and the former Soviet Union. Most of the time they behave like moral relativists, who seem incapable of identifying evil when they see it. Of course, if the subject happens to turn to something like conservatism, their demeanors suddenly change. They have no problem treating right-wingers as if they were the spawn of Satan himself, but when it comes to someone like Joseph Stalin, why, he was just a poor, misunderstood schlub. I do. My family were slaughtered en masse by the good ol' patriotic army of the NAZIs and the darned leftists of Stalin. We were killed by starvation. I'd like to tell this guy to go "fuck himself" when he says offensive things like that. First my family in Ukraine was subjugated by the Soviets, then we were starved twice in the Great Famines of '21 and '31-33. Then we got to deal with Koba's purges in the late 30s of any remaining Kulak sympathizers and non-Stalinists. Then we got to deal with the NAZIs when they sieged Odessa and Kiev. Joy, joy, joy. I don't see a difference in the nations, either. Chruchill and Rosevelt had the oppurtunity to bomb the guard stations at Austwitz, but deemed it a minor target in 1943. I'm sorry. I feel no love for any of these nations. And I have no personal problem with fiscally responsible conservatives or mild socons, I have a personal problem with conservatives who declare my gay friends to be evil. I have a problem with conservatives who say the poor need to change and get off their asses. I'm sorry, but those are nasty things to say and I can't really stand it. But either way, this part of the article makes me sick. Oh, and let's not forget that America is also a horribly racist country, or so leftists would have us believe. Aside from being the descendants of slavers and genocidal maniacs, the white majority routinely seeks to disenfranchise black voters, prevent hispanics from entering the country, profile Arab-looking people at airports, and railroad virtually every non-white criminal suspect we can get our grubby little hands on. Of course, it doesn't seem to matter at all that a disproportionately high number of criminals in this country are non-white, that the vast majority of terrorists are Arab-looking, that millions of hispanics have entered the U.S. illegally, or that there's been practically no evidence of black voter disenfranchisement anywhere in the country in recent times. So is every other nation. Do you think that I'm proud of what my ancestors did to Polish border towns, Russian towns, the Tatars of the Crimean, the Muslims and the Jews? All people are descendants of historical monsters like Kitchener, it is the Old European way. But then he brings up these problems. Actually, the majority of crime committed in Canada and America are done by whites. Not blacks. And in fact, it isn't even done by that, it is done by the poor of all races, who have no other economic venues of climbing in the modern society. You get lucky or you fail when you're poor. Look at my family, we got lucky because my mom was fortunate enough to get into university in the late 70s when it was still cheap and the entrance averages were lower. Now, I have truly brilliant friends who live below the poverty line, work everyday and maintain 90 averages that can't afford to go to university. Even with the multi-thousand dollar scholarships. Then there is the Arab problem...Look at the history of terrorism in America. The "big attacks" are done by Arabs and Muslims, but there have been two of those in American history. The two bombings of the WTC. But the majority of attacks have been done by whites. Plain and simple truth. The black disenfranchisement of voting happened in the early 1990 when I turned 3 years old on March 3rd when Rodney King was beaten in LA. Way to gloss over the facts. The illegal entrance of Mexican nationals into America is probably due to the gross conditions on the otherside of the border and the false thoughts that things are hella great for them on the otherside. Really when you're an illegal immigrant in any nation, unless you come from Africa or the other super-poor nations or a brutal dictatorship things aren't much better. For the most part, liberals who cry racism at every turn are racists themselves, choosing to exploit the issue of skin color whenever they feel it will afford them some sort of political or social advantage. In fact, they are even more dangerous, potentially, than neo-Nazis or the KKK, because they don't admit they're racists. At least you know a skinhead when you see one. What Math said. These left-wing bigots are the same people who delight in telling everyone how awful this country is, and how ashamed we should be for all the horrors we've inflicted on the innocent people of the world throughout our history. And while they may not make up the majority of liberals in this country, they are almost never challenged by other leftists for being utterly despicable cretins. LOL. I think every nation should be aware of the horrors it has committed and hold a bit of shame on that. It's a healthy thing when you're a Canadian and you caused the whole sale deaths and degradation of the Japanese and Japanese looking Asians in WW2. Or how we Canadians continue to gloss over the wretched conditions in our Native Reserves. LOL is all I say. LOL No, their left-leaning confederates are too busy referring to patriotism as the foolish antics of a bunch of redneck simpletons, who think everyone else in the world sucks. Well, patriotism is NOT foolishness, nor is it an expression of unwarranted pride. Patriotism in this country is born of the understanding that we are among the most honorable and decent people on earth, in spite of our flaws, and it's kept alive by an overwhelming desire to make sure that our children are left with at least as much freedom and prosperity as we enjoy. It is understandable, but there are tonnes of Ameri-proud leftists I know. Who take great joy in the founding of the nation, but despair at what they see around them. They're patriotic as the next guy, and support the ongoing war on terror and other things that many other leftists disagree with. As a Canadian, I've always felt we are the most decent folk on Earth. As a Ukrainian Canadian I've always felt me and my ilk were the most honourable. Oooops, I guess that this is a regional thing  Like what Math said (I say opa to the big mofo Math).American patriots appreciate just how lucky they are to live in this country. They understand how many people sacrificed everything to get us to this point, and how many more sacrifices will have to be made to keep us here. True patriots don't go around telling people from other countries how superior Americans are to them. They don't hate anybody who hasn't exhibited a hatred for America first, and they're perfectly willing to let other countries be, just as long as they don't threaten America's interests. As does every single leftist who lives in anything above the terrible conditions in some nations. I'm fucking proud to be in Canada and appreciate what I have so much. The things that are said here are despicable. Like I said, there is a definite difference between Patriotism and Jingoism. I have no problem with Patriotism, but Jingoism is a big deal. Moreover, what constitutes a threat? Military, economic, what? That is a definition problem. Patriotic Americans also understand that you can't build up your country if you spend all your time trying to tear it down, and I've yet to meet a liberal who hasn't attempted to wreck some aspect of American culture at some point in their lives. Examples, please. While it is the right, and even the duty, of all Americans to question their government from time to time, ridiculing the American culture, and demeaning the remarkable efforts of our ancestors simply because some of them did horrible things, is as contemptible as it is narrow-minded. Remarkable efforts or not, if your ancestors helped the slaughter of the Roma in the 1940s. Or your ancestors are Armenian Muslims who killed millions of Christians. Question, and analyze. Do not bask in the pride of this. And besides, democracy is founded on change and questioning. The ultimate duty of any citizen in a democracy is to question the government and society at large to see that the equality of the citizenry as a whole can be improved and that freedom reigns. Nobody, on the left or the right is trying to take away freedoms. Although I'd say that the modern extreme right is just as bad as the historical extreme left in what it does. Liberals love to preach to the rest of us about tolerance and understanding, but when put to the one test that matters the most, they reveal themselves to be as intolerant as any group of people can be. They act as if there's something wrong with Americans choosing to embrace all that is good and right about our country, instead of habitually focusing on its faults, and I for one resent their attitude. It's good to understand what's good and bad. If you can see the faults and fractures of your nations, contrast it with the good and see how you can fix these holes. That's what lots of leftists do. Look at Micheal Moore, he dislikes a lot of things in America, but if you listen closely, as much of a hyper-douche as he is, he still loves his nation. He loves the people. And he loves his rights. Just like Leg, or the dude that wrote this article does. But I resent this guy's attitude that all "liberals" preach this stuff. Because I know I'm damned tolerant of other views, but to say that I disagree with them and oppose them is what everyone does. It's called discourse, and it is what makes change happen. America may not be the best it can be, but it's a whole hell of a lot better than the socialist utopia envisioned by people on the left these days. Given the choice between associating with some whiny, blame-America-first liberal, or a proud, flag-wavin' redneck, all I've got to say is toss me one o' them there brews, Bubba, and fire up the barbecue! I'd rather associate with the latter, because I hang around with tonnes of flag-waving rednecks who drink beer and eat off the barbeque while I strum on my banjo while being pro-union, pro-choice and damned Communist pinko-socialist democratic fools. Besides, the first one doesn't really exist in the way this guy paints it And how can something imperfect compare to a utopian dream world. Just wondering .But as for the truth of his comment. Ummmm, this guy needs to read Marx before he makes assumptions on the left. Because really, he is equating socialism and all leftist thought to communism. Which is W-R-O-N-G. In the words of the late John Wayne, "Sure I wave the American flag. Do you know a better flag to wave? Sure I love my country with all her faults. I'm not ashamed of that, never have been, never will be." I wave my Canadian flag about with all her faults and societal problems with pride. Ain't nothing to be ashamed of. But to gloss over the historical wrong-doings of my nation, and every other nation IS something to be ashamed of. (edited by Emperor Ziffatine on 05-15-05 07:34 AM) |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61  Posts: 1548/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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| I read the first two paragraphs and stopped because of the insane right-wing "liberal" generalizing. I'm sure someone will try their hardest to find something wrong with this despite it's perfection. Did you read any of it? \\ editz I read it, laughing at every "liberals are this, liberals are that". XD There's also the leftist view that America is not the great nation that the patriots among us believe it to be, because equality has not been achieved among all its citizens. What they fail to understand is that there is no such thing as absolute equality among people. "So what if this country isn't equal, and prejudice half the time? What do you expect?" Simply possessing the same rights as everyone else does not, in any way, guarantee a person equality of outcome in any endeavor... Okay, I agree with that. ...nor can laws change the fact that some people are superior to others in all sorts of ways. I agree with that, but on different terms. That just sounds so effing prejudice. The only equality anyone can ask for is equality under the law, and if some other country has a better system of justice than ours, I'd like to hear about it. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Anyone remember the 2000 election? That's what I thought. Black people shouldn't be allowed to vote.  Left-wingers also whine endlessly about American imperialism, even though they clearly have no grasp of what that term implies. If the United States was an imperialist nation, the Cold War never would have happened, because we would have obliterated the Soviet Union in 1945, and then established American-style governments and economic systems in every country we felt like controlling. Heaven forbid that we would establish american-style governments and economic systems in a country we felt like controlling! DOES ANYONE SEE WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS? DO YOU HAVE A BRAIN, LIKE, AT ALL? No nation on earth was in a position to challenge us once we developed nuclear weapons, but we didn't set about taking over the world, because modern Americans are not conquerors, we're liberators. The line between liberators or conquerors is blurry, these days. Still, few liberals are willing to make the sort of moral distinctions necessary to differentiate between countries like this one and the former Soviet Union. Most of the time they behave like moral relativists, who seem incapable of identifying evil when they see it. Because, America is of course, the moral police of the world. They have no problem treating right-wingers as if they were the spawn of Satan himself, but when it comes to someone like Joseph Stalin, why, he was just a poor, misunderstood schlub. If any liberal treats conservatives badly is because people in power dictate the world. Oh, and let's not forget that America is also a horribly racist country, or so leftists would have us believe. Aside from being the descendants of slavers and genocidal maniacs, the white majority routinely seeks to disenfranchise black voters, prevent hispanics from entering the country, profile Arab-looking people at airports, and railroad virtually every non-white criminal suspect we can get our grubby little hands on. I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not. Seriously, if this was anywhere except this conservative blog, I would think it was serious. XD Of course, it doesn't seem to matter at all that a disproportionately high number of criminals in this country are non-white, that the vast majority of terrorists are Arab-looking, that millions of hispanics have entered the U.S. illegally, or that there's been practically no evidence of black voter disenfranchisement anywhere in the country in recent times. After reading this, I feel no need to continue this. (edited by windwaker on 05-15-05 07:31 AM) (edited by windwaker on 05-15-05 07:44 AM) (edited by Emperor Ziffatine on 05-15-05 07:47 AM) |
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drjayphd Beamos What's that spell? pimp! Level: 56  Posts: 1038/1477 EXP: 1387410 For next: 10766 Since: 03-15-04 From: CT Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| It's a little long, but definately something to think about... Yup. A perfect summation of that which I hate about the loudest of conservatives and the breed of jingoistic right-wing culture that insists on asserting itself. But I know it's not addressing ME. See that little guy over there? Yeah, the one made of straw. THAT guy is FUCKED. EDIT: I love it when a post comes together.   (edited by drjayphd on 05-15-05 09:52 AM) |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3737/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by windwaker All of it actually. See, the thing is, if this was the same article but written from the left perspective then you would be agreeing with it the same way I did. The difference is that I'm more right and you're more It would seem to me as if your entire outlook on American politics and so forth is based soley off of one President.  |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 1554/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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| I thought about that, actually. If it was written from the left perspective, and it generalized, saying "all conservatives do [x]", I would be bashing it all the same. Oh, and if it was prejudice as well. How do you explain that? (edited by windwaker on 05-15-05 03:41 PM) |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3740/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by windwaker I don't follow... |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 1555/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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| The blog article favored prejudice. Of course, it doesn't seem to matter at all that a disproportionately high number of criminals in this country are non-white, that the vast majority of terrorists are Arab-looking, that millions of hispanics have entered the U.S. illegally, or that there's been practically no evidence of black voter disenfranchisement anywhere in the country in recent times. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3741/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| Yeah, pretty much. Not all prejudice is bad, it's only when you base your entire belief around it is when it causes problems. | |||
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 1557/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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| Okay, well, despite the fact that I disagree with that form of prejudice being bad, you're entitled to your opinion. However, the generalizing in that article is quite... lame. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3742/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by windwaker I guess I can actually agree with you there then. I never have been a big fan of generalizing for it's never entirely accurate. |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67 Posts: 1828/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| So you think not even giving people a chance is all right, b/c it's public perception? I think prejudice might save your butt sometimes, like if you're in a neighborhood at 1am in the morning and a bunch of black guys are running towards your car about to kill you b/c they're in a gang or whatever, then yeah. But that is a matter of clear and present danger. It's another matter entirely to be on a plane with an Arab dude and start beating him down b/c you think he's going to hijack the plane, now isn't it? The attitudes in the article seem to suggest that we should be able to take away any right of any individual on the basis of their ethnicity, and not on an actual evaluated threat from that person. Profiling, to me, is a waste of time. In the past year, the Indianapolis PD stopped Isaiah Thomas of all people b/c they thought he had drugs in his trunk - just because he was black. The two state cops didn't know who he was, and if they did, they would have obviously known he had no motivation to be carrying drugs. He's a high paid NBA coach and former NBA star. Once they found out, they felt stupid and let him go. In the wake of 911, many Arab families I know personally have had the FBI come to their houses and do endless amount of interviewing. It isn't just at the airports, they're being profiled everywhere. I don't see how going up to a family and asking questions is anymore helpful than surveillance from afar. At least it's not as bad as what we did with the Japanese in WW2. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3743/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by MathOnNapkins Never even said that dude. Didn't even imply it. |
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drjayphd Beamos What's that spell? pimp! Level: 56 Posts: 1042/1477 EXP: 1387410 For next: 10766 Since: 03-15-04 From: CT Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by MathOnNapkins Nate Newton says hi (well, from jail, I think). He was quite good, but decided that after retiring, he should be the biggest dealer EVAR. But idiocy and the desire to hustle know no earthly bounds. He's just a dickhead on his own merit, not because he's black. Same deal with Rahshon Spikes, the biggest football star from my old high school. Went to college (NC State)... really only because of football, he was dumber than paint and his coach/guidance counselor (who was also mine) pushed him HARD to colleges. Left after four years, with NO DEGREE, didn't get drafted. Bounced around a couple of NFL practice squads, maybe NFL Europe, ended up selling crack back here. What's the common thread? That they're black? Nooooooo. That they're athletes? Try again. That they're MORONS. Really, the only difference between your standard-issue racial profiling victim and Isaiah Thomas is he's more famous, shining a brighter light on the problem. You pull someone over because they're, say, black and therefore MUST have drugs on them, you deserve to feel stupid. Although what happened with Japanese-Americans in WW2 was fucking inexcusable, never mind the fact that the Supreme Court (where this filibuster fight will lead) signed off on it. Their hands are far from clean, but there's no reason to give up on them too. I'd like to think that it (the Korematsu case) wouldn't have to happen nowadays, buuut... |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67 Posts: 1829/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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Originally posted by Legion Since you didn't say what I thought you said, maybe you should explain when you think prejudice is a good thing. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3747/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by MathOnNapkinsOriginally posted by Legion You took it to an extreme to attempt to make yourself look like a thread hero. Besides, if you're going by that logic, then you said the same thing. "I think prejudice might save your butt sometimes, like if you're in a neighborhood at 1am in the morning and a bunch of black guys are running towards your car about to kill you b/c they're in a gang or whatever, then yeah." That's basically what I was talking about. |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67 Posts: 1831/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| I wasn't trying to be a "thread hero" or whatever. I just wanted you to clarify. Is that a crime? I thought maybe you had some justification I hadn't thought of. |
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