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1 user currently in Super Mario World hacking:  labmaster |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Super Mario World hacking - Smb3 enemys in smw? |
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hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38  Posts: 60/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
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| I guess.. I don't really ascribe to that philosophy.. "I created the thread, I can destroy it whenever I want"... but... not my call, eh? | |||
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BMF98567 BLACK HAS BUILT A SILLY DICE-MAZE! GO! Current list of BURNING FURY >8( recipients: - Yiffy Kitten (x2) - Xkeeper Level: 53  Posts: 120/1261 EXP: 1094149 For next: 62970 Since: 03-15-04 From: Blobaria Special Move: Rising Meatloaf Backhand Combo Since last post: 21 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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This thread will remain open until it gets out of hand, or I get enough requests to close it. It's been a very interesting read so far. I like to see intelligent debate in here once in a while.  |
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Alastor the Stylish Hey! I made a cool game! It's called "I poisoned half the food, so if you eat you might die!" Have a taco.  Level: 114  Posts: 422/7620 EXP: 16258468 For next: 51099 Since: 03-15-04 From: Oregon, US Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| How is it intelligent? It's just two people pointlessly arguing two different sides, unable to say "perhaps we're both right a little and wrong a litttle "out of pride or, failing that, stubbornness. | |||
Juggling Joker Boomerang Brother SMW Hacking Moderator Yeah, JAMH is still being worked on. Level: 48 Posts: 66/1033 EXP: 811447 For next: 12096 Since: 03-15-04 From: Wyoming Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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| A good argument is healthy, and since they haven't reduced themselves to personal insults and baseless attacks yet (hint hint, Blisseh), I say leave it open. | |||
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Alastor the Stylish Hey! I made a cool game! It's called "I poisoned half the food, so if you eat you might die!" Have a taco. Level: 114 Posts: 423/7620 EXP: 16258468 For next: 51099 Since: 03-15-04 From: Oregon, US Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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I have no idea what you're talking about, JJ.   *throws down a smoke bomb and runs away at the speed of brick* |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43  Posts: 26/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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| haha i'm almost pity you. but seriously, your logic is so far skewed, i feel bad for you. you are in short, way off base. you just don't understand any of it, and i suppose i don't expect you to ever understand half of it. i can only feel sorry for you i suppose  |
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hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38 Posts: 61/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
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| You know, if you have some actual points that you'd like to make, I'd love to hear them. I've answered everything you've said, and if my logic was so skewed, then it would be simple to drill me on these points. But I don't think you can do that... and so that's all you have to say? "You don't understand"? It gets somewhat irritating. I lead DD around for a while, shut him down, the least I'd expect is a "let's agree to disagree", not this "I can't really make any defensible points, but you're an idiot anyways" stuff. (edited by hhallahh on 04-11-04 05:37 AM) |
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mikepjr Ninji Level: 26  Posts: 67/242 EXP: 92006 For next: 10269 Since: 03-15-04 From: houston texas Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 1 hour |
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Ok here is what i will say on the mater. I actualy think that if someone wants to do better at (and im not going to use the word hack or hacking from now on) editing games such as smw smb3 or what ever have you, and if your getting to the point that you feel your hack is lacking cause the editor may be limited to you or, some one can do somthing you cant, dose not mean that they should not be allowed to do as well as they do at "editing" games or what have you. And if you read one of my posts. A way back i dont think that lunar magic is hard just hard to learn at first and the help file is a pain to understand.And i can only hope the next version of luner magic hase only one main thing added to it. The abilety to edit the backgroung effects ya know wavy difernt parts moving at diferent speeds and so on like that, oh and at least one more layer, i can deal with it not having more monsters, deal as in im not worried about it. So can we just close out this theard all togethor? Please?  |
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dan Snap Dragon Level: 43  Posts: 44/782 EXP: 534516 For next: 30530 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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Originally posted by mikepjr I believe that kind of post was the original reason for the whole argument - wanting more from Lunar Magic. I would expect that those two features would require a lot of work, so expecting them to be in Lunar Magic is greedy. It should also be noted that all these requests for Lunar Magic are kind of futile, as FuSoYa said he wouldn't work on Lunar Magic anymore (not counting bug fixes). But everyone in this forum seems to ignore that fact. However, like it or not, using Lunar Magic is still hacking the game, and a fundamental part of ROM hacking is learning to work with what you have got. And if you don't have the assembly knowledge to implement features that you want, in the game, then you should either learn the knowledge, or just learn to do without. |
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DahrkDaiz Red Super Koopa  Acmlm's Mosts 2005 Best ROM Hacker Level: 45  Posts: 70/885 EXP: 643520 For next: 16644 Since: 03-15-04 From: K-Town Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by hhallahh Oh no no no. You did not "shut me down". Just because I haven't replied in a while doesn't mean you "shut me down". First: I think it's stupid to restrict those who can excel for the "sake of the community". What if the same logic were applied to the real video game industry? We'd never get mega hits. I hack in order to, first and foremost, have fun. Also, thanks to the fruits of my labor, I can help others go beyond the editor, thus, continuously motivating others to hack games I've hacked. You see the only person who thinks excellent hacks cause a problem, just because they don't use the editor entirely to do their hack. Look at programs like "Game Maker". You don't see people getting discouraged from making their own game because those who don't use it and code it entirely in C/C++ or something. So far I've seen your points as this: Editors should include features that other hacks can produce without it, for the sake of newbs to do it without hard work. It's a-ok for those who have the best editor to demand more features, i.e. have your cake and eat it too. Excellent hacks are bad for the community. I'm being an elitist. It's hard to continuously debate with you these points, but I will. Many other rom hacks agree with me, if you've notice, no one has come here to back you up on your points. There've been a few people who don't even hack SMW to re-enforce some points I've made. I think the problem is that you're spoiled with SMW. Lunar Magic isn't the de facto editor at which all game editors should strive to be. Lunar Magic is the excellent exception. Honestly, I think you're spoiled. You seem to be trying to argue the opposite of what I am, trying to pull me down, trying to discourage me. I have seen NO consequences in making great hacks. Those who are "destined" to make an excellent hack will, despite whats already out there. Not everyone is a great hacker and/or designer, but those who are also have the determination and skill to do one. Part of being an excellent hacker/designer is not relying entirely on the tools you're given. Thus, like I said, no matter how much stuff you put in an editor, the bad hackers will still remain bad and the good hackers will stille shine. Look at FPI: his SMW hacks have not one shred of ASM modifcation. It's mostly ripped graphics and hard levels. Yet, many would considerd his reality project hacks as excellent pieces of work (I do atlesat) because of how beautiful they are. So there's proof in the pudding. I shame you for even thinking that a good hack requires better features in your hack. Excellent level design is not a substitute for asm hacks or random hex editing. I've yet to see one SMW hack that has the potential to be excellent if only Lunar Magic had more features, so your point of more features = better hacks is false. More features just make it faster to make an excellent hack, but like I said, only those who would have made an excellent hack without the extra features in LM are going to make an excellent hack with extra features in LM. I would also like to add this: Sorry to those who are trying to make a good SMW hack, but you need to learn to use what you have before demanding more. Other rom hackers aren't blessed with such wonderful editors, but, excellent hacks are still made. Don't discouraged by me saying most SMW hacks suck, instead, be motivated to prove me wrong. There's nothing I want more than to see better designed hacks in the "community". (edited by DahrkDaiz on 04-11-04 07:19 AM) |
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mikepjr Ninji Level: 26 Posts: 68/242 EXP: 92006 For next: 10269 Since: 03-15-04 From: houston texas Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Dude im not being greedy you jerk i said i hope it will be in the next not it better be in the next version read carefully next time ya jerk. Case if its not in the next oh well it might be in time. Man do i want to curse you big time dude, curse as in foul mouth. And this is the second time you called someone greedy. Im not greedy. i said "I HOPE" Not, IT BETTER. | |||
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dan Snap Dragon Level: 43 Posts: 45/782 EXP: 534516 For next: 30530 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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Originally posted by mikepjr Um, was that directed at me? This is my first post in this thread.  Wanting anyone to do work for you, is lazy. Perhaps greedy is too harsh a word, but it is definitely along those lines. Also, you totally seemed to have ignored my second paragraph:Originally posted by dan |
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DahrkDaiz Red Super Koopa Acmlm's Mosts 2005 Best ROM Hacker Level: 45 Posts: 71/885 EXP: 643520 For next: 16644 Since: 03-15-04 From: K-Town Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| I'll re-iterate what dan said: FUSOYA IS DONE WITH LUNAR MAGIC FUSOYA IS DONE WITH LUNAR MAGIC FUSOYA IS DONE WITH LUNAR MAGIC FUSOYA IS DONE WITH LUNAR MAGIC FUSOYA IS DONE WITH LUNAR MAGIC FUSOYA IS DONE WITH LUNAR MAGIC |
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mikepjr Ninji Level: 26 Posts: 69/242 EXP: 92006 For next: 10269 Since: 03-15-04 From: houston texas Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 1 hour |
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| I was just ticked off cause you called me greedy lazy yes i will not deny that but i hate being called greedy. And about him not working on sorry but not long ago he mintioned in a thread he had another version he was working on or somthing. You say he is no, fine, ok, i got it. But like i said i hate being called greedy. (edited by mikepjr on 04-11-04 10:09 AM) |
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Chickenlump Level: 41  Posts: 139/722 EXP: 474192 For next: 5953 Since: 03-15-04 From: Columbia City Indiana Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| Wow..... If I were to have made a super editor, and stated MANY times that I was done with it, but people kept making whish threads, suggestions, and new feature posts, I would be kinda bummed out. FuSoYa probably got past this stage though and aquired a pretty thick skin for this kind of thing though. (not to mention that all this is just the board, not taking into account stuff we don't see, like his email and PM's and what-not). I would have gotten discouraged a long while back. Posting new features and whish lists KNOWING all this would indeed make me a greedy bad person. Just rephrasing it to "I Hope" instead of "It Better" isn't changing anything. If anything, it almost seems like a guilt trip. |
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hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38 Posts: 62/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
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| Well, I have to commend you for actually responding to what I said, as opposed to what you feel I'm saying, even though I've said it's not the case several times. Those who are "destined" to make an excellent hack will, despite whats already out there. And this is where I strongly disagree. Like I said (I wonder how many sentances open with "like I said..", I can't prove that people get discouraged, but you can't prove that they don't. I guess that... duh, anyone who is "destined" to make a great hack will make a great hack, or else they weren't destined to begin with, but you didn't really mean to phrase it as a tautology, did you? But yea. If FPI or whoever is destined to make excellent hacks, then.. why does he do it with LM and SMW? Why not any other game: Obvious answer is because LM exists, implying that if LM did not exist, FPI would not be making SR2, implying that... maybe he wouldn't be making a hack at all. Who knows. You'd have to ask him. Would he make a hack for a community where the standard of "excellent" is too high? I doubt it. Originally posted by DahrkDaiz Originally posted by DahrkDaiz Contradiction... but I'm glad if you backed down from the first point. It's a start. And, of course, FPI is free to make an excellent hack by SMW standards, because the tools enable him to keep up with hackers who are more experienced with ASM and such in terms of hack quality. But the SMW community, as we all know, has a better set of tools to begin with. Would the same situation apply in the Mario 3 community? If someone made a hack with just new levels (and maybe new graphics? Idunno the exact capacity), could it become as well known as MA? Maybe. It's possible. It'd face a serious disadvantage from the start. The SMW scene, since it obviously has better tools... yea, anyone can make an excellent hack (or a terrible one.) That's the good thing about it, the standards of excellence are within reach to your average designer. Not so much the case in other communities.. To say that a designer with good potential can never be discouraged or be inclined to change his medium is really strange. Do so many people hack SMW because they consider SMW to be the best game of all time? I doubt it. I'm sure a lot of them would rather be hacking Super Metroid, or Yoshi's Island, or Sonic 2, or what-have-you. The reason they don't, of course, is because it's stupid to start from scratch and have to build from the ground up. They'll go to the place where there's more hacking support... obviously, it's no coincidence that the communities with the best tools are also the largest communities. And if LM existed for Mario 3, then we'd be having the same debate, only on the "Super Mario 3 hacking" forum. It doesn't matter what people should do, how much they should learn in order to hack, etc. I think it's stupid to say that whoever is unwilling to learn would've been a crappy hacker anyways. I haven't really raised the thought of inter-community competition, but it's a relevant one as well.. 1) Designers design for a purpose. If the expected payoff isn't greater then the expected investment of effort, they won't start to begin with. 2) The purpose is often recognition, if not completely then to a large extent. 3) A medium with better tools is always preferable, as long as the medium isn't so saturated with talent that your hack wouldn't really stand out (which is kinda the case here... each community has a capacity...) 4) If the standards in a given community are too high, the designer will either find another or quit. Yea. *yawn* To me, it just stands to reason... if, say, DW:TLC and SMO and SR2 and Sendy's World and what have you were all coming out... but no editors existed whatsoever... then a lot of people would say, "screw that, I can never compete with that (or, rather, it's not worth the effort), maybe I should just hack Mario 3 (which has editors!)" If whatever Mario 3 editors were as powerful or more powerful than LM, you really think that there would be no difference in the relative number of quality hacks coming from each community? I'd.. beg to differ. But I'm too tired to really stay lucid at the moment. I'll stop here. |
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Alastor the Stylish Hey! I made a cool game! It's called "I poisoned half the food, so if you eat you might die!" Have a taco. Level: 114 Posts: 431/7620 EXP: 16258468 For next: 51099 Since: 03-15-04 From: Oregon, US Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| You're right to a point, hhallahh, but your reasoning is flawed. To say that people would hack Mario 3 if Lunar Magic was for it is downright stupid - Mario 3 is harder to get into. There are still Mario 3 VS SMW debates to this day, and though I never had SMW until I started emulating and had Mario 3 since I can remember, I still think SMW is a better game. Mario 3 levels are more limited in what they can do, controls are worse, and while it has better items, screw the items, I like good gameplay, not goofy gimmicks. Lunar Magic was for Super Mario World for a reason, you know - There's a lot you can do with the SMW engine, and even if LM was for another game, people still would recognize that and probably a lot of people would go with whatever game LM was for, but to say that all the people who went to SMW for LM would go to SMB3 for LM or Sonic 2 for LM or YI for LM is just foolhardy. | |||
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43 Posts: 27/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by hhallahh no no, i was just being belligerant, attempting to throw this thread away. i actually was expecting someone to be rude back to me. but i suppose people here are too nice. *gavin shrugs* my tactlessness was actually supposed to be something of a joke. nobody has a great sense of humor anymore |
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Alastor the Stylish Hey! I made a cool game! It's called "I poisoned half the food, so if you eat you might die!" Have a taco. Level: 114 Posts: 432/7620 EXP: 16258468 For next: 51099 Since: 03-15-04 From: Oregon, US Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| You can't get away with sarcasm online unless you're really, really good at it or use sarcasm tags. It's not that no one has a sense of humor, it's that your didn't make it clear enough you were joking. | |||
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DahrkDaiz Red Super Koopa Acmlm's Mosts 2005 Best ROM Hacker Level: 45 Posts: 73/885 EXP: 643520 For next: 16644 Since: 03-15-04 From: K-Town Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| I no longer feel like debating, but I will say this: you didn't win this debate. You didn't prove anything to me, I still stand by everything I've said and more people agree with me than you, try coming to the channel I visit, you'll be seriously outnumbered. And, mind you, there's no such thing as an SMB3 hacking community. Rom hackers are rom hackers, I don't care what game they're hacking. We all do this to have fun, if you're goal is to get recognition and think you need a better editor to get there, then get the hell out our "community". Fin. Oh, and one last thing: What you're basically asking for is a communistic community, where everyone can equally make a good hack, but remember, communism seems good on paper, but is seriously flawed  (edited by DahrkDaiz on 04-11-04 03:57 PM) |
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