 |
| Register | Login | |||||
 |
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| ACS
| Commons
| Calendar
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | Color Chart | Photo album | IRC Chat |
|
| | ||
|
| Register | Login | |||||
|
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| ACS
| Commons
| Calendar
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | Color Chart | Photo album | IRC Chat |
|
| | ||
| 0 user currently in World Affairs / Debate. |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - English as the official language of the U.S. |
 |  |  |
| Pages: 1 2 | Add to favorites | "RSS" Feed | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| User | Post | ||
|
Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 303/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
| ||
| As it stands, the United States does not have a de-jure official language, though obviously English is the de-facto official language. What would be the implications and relative merits of making English the official language of the U.S.? Such an action would not "outlaw" or otherwise suppress other langugaes, it would just mandate that legislation, etc be conducted in the English language. Immigrants and others who don't speak English would be expected to learn the language in order to deal with the "outside world", but would of course be free to speak in any language they wish for private purposes (for example, they could speak Spanish in their household, but be expected to speak English, or have a translator, if they go to the local supermarket). To me, this makes sense, and it's virtually how things are already: many languages are spoken here, but all things revolve around one common language, and not knowing that language would put someone far behind if they wish to live here. However, this view could, understandably, be interpreted to be exclusionary or anglo-centric or anti-immigrants or whatever; to which I would respond that many countries have official languages (including neighboring Mexico (Spanish) and Canada (English and French)), and in fact the U.S. is unusual in that it does not. Not having made English an official language to begin with is, I think, just an oversight; as it is, English is the de-facto official language, so is there really any compelling reason to change from English de-facto to English de-jure, other than for its own sake, or as a gesture of exclusion of others? Discuss. |
|||
Kario In Possession of a Stolen Shovel Level: 65 Posts: 1806/2082 EXP: 2321379 For next: 14249 Since: 03-15-04 From: Texas... Yeehaw! Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 17 hours |
| ||
| Wow, I got permabanned. Why? Well, I was told several reasons. Almost all of which can describe at least half of the members on this board. English is the understood language of ths US and thats good enough for me. (edited by Sawnec on 04-14-05 02:12 PM) (edited by Ziffski on 04-14-05 02:23 PM) (edited by Sawnec on 04-21-05 12:39 PM) (edited by Sawnec on 04-21-05 12:40 PM) (edited by Sawnec on 04-23-05 12:01 PM) |
|||
DahrkDaiz Red Super Koopa  Acmlm's Mosts 2005 Best ROM Hacker Level: 45  Posts: 610/885 EXP: 643520 For next: 16644 Since: 03-15-04 From: K-Town Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
| ||
| *sigh* this has been discussed amongst the moderators, don't bring this up here and don't act like a mod. We're handling it ourselves... As for the ACTUAL TOPIC... I think that changing English from the defacto language to the de-jure language is a bit iffy. Think about this: Christianity is the de-facto religion in America. It's expected of most "Americans" though we don't have an official religion, that's against the law by the Constitution. I believe that assigning an official language to America has a loose (keyword, loose) similarity here. One of the things about America that made it a "great" country is that it's a melting pot of cultures. This includes languages, so assigning an official language could open the door for some radical new laws, of which I don't really want to try to think of examples of right now, but my point is probably clear enough. An official religion could be used to force others to be of that religion, forcing a language may force you to learn that language (even though it's hard to function well in America without knowing English, that should be the right of the citizen, not the government). |
|||
Anya The Exile Ultima Mezcla de Yin Yan Level: 98  Posts: 4656/5337 EXP: 9530313 For next: 124040 Since: 03-15-04 From: South Florida Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 2 days |
| ||
| Kario, please, thanks for the help, but its not needed and the staff has been talking about the whole avatar situation for a while now. Trust me, there's worse things on this board than an avatar of a male with an open chest. If I didn't know better, it just seems like you're trying to cause up trouble. Let the staff deal with the stress, if you have any sort of beef, take up in an instant message or within a PM, please, don't break topic on something that you're either trying to fix or trying to stir up. Honetly, I doubt anyone wants to read it. Your thoughts are wanted of course, but acting like staff and doing what was dalready said above, isn't the way to go, okay. |
|||
Tamarin Calanis We exist. Earth exists. The universe exists. Do we really need to know why? Level: 59 Posts: 444/1802 EXP: 1672751 For next: 377 Since: 07-12-04 From: The gas station on the corner... Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
| ||
| Edit: Y'know what? That post made no sense. I just don't want to delete it and get someone mad at me for that. =/ (edited by Tamarin Calanis on 04-14-05 02:52 PM) |
|||
|
Anya The Exile Ultima Mezcla de Yin Yan Level: 98 Posts: 4658/5337 EXP: 9530313 For next: 124040 Since: 03-15-04 From: South Florida Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 2 days |
| ||
| Which one, mine? My comment was made towards Kario, who is known as Sawnec. Sorry for the confusion, that wasn't my intention. | |||
windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61  Posts: 1407/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
| ||
*First on-topic reply*  I, personally, feel that there's no need for an official language in the U.S. Of course, if there was, it would be english, no doubting that, though I feel that there are so many minorities in America that speak different languages, that this would overall be pointless. I mean, is it a big problem at the moment, especially in the scheme of everything going on? |
|||
alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 3611/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
| ||
| It is you official language. All government documents are written in it, therefore it is enshrined and an unwritten law. I feel that in the US of A there would be a few problems with making a direct official language. Primarily the assimilative government policies. I'm thinking that if you were to adopt a pragmatic system of language distribution, it would work. But I'd assume there'd be insane opposition to this. I know talking to a few Yankeedoodledoos that they are angry that in NYC there are Chinese signs in Chinatown and feel that it is unfair for Americans. God only knows what they would do when they come to Toronto and find signs in Russian, Italian, Greek, and many other languages |
|||
|
Tamarin Calanis We exist. Earth exists. The universe exists. Do we really need to know why? Level: 59 Posts: 446/1802 EXP: 1672751 For next: 377 Since: 07-12-04 From: The gas station on the corner... Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
| ||
Originally posted by AnyaNo, mine. Which is why I removed it and added that "Edit:" line, rather than delete it. Now who's confused? Anyway, it's a good thing I removed it; thinking about it (while playing RC Pro-Am 2) made me change my mind. While it would be nice to officially establish English as an official language, that probably wouldn't make anyone learn English that wasn't going to already. This removes the only possible reason to even bother establishing it as an official language that I can think of, which means - I don't see the point. |
|||
|
||bass Programmer Admin Level: 44  Posts: 314/817 EXP: 570813 For next: 40472 Since: 03-15-04 From: Salem, Connecticut Since last post: 26 days Last activity: 11 days |
| ||
| You all should probably find this page fairly informative: http://www.us-english.org/inc/official/ | |||
Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 273/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
| ||
| Why do the people on that site hate Spanish so much? Tis a pretty languge. |
|||
Jagori Flurry Level: 27 Posts: 199/267 EXP: 103625 For next: 12534 Since: 04-17-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 2 hours |
| ||
| I'd have to say I'm not entirely clear on what goes on in the US as far as official proceedings go, but aren't they done in English? I'm a little uncertain about the practical differences between your current situation there and making English the official language. Sounds to me like there wouldn't be much difference... do you ever find official documents that aren't in English? I don't think having an official language can really be compared to having an official religion. First off, not everyone follows a religion, and for those who do, there's a huge range of degrees of devoutness, not to mention the fact that people of different religions (barring radical fundamentalists) can function together. Everyone "follows" a language very closely, and it must be the same language as other people for communication purposes. Having an official language doesn't "outlaw" other languages... here, the official languages are English and French, and that simply means that all government documents have to be in both English and French, and any government employee must be bilingual since people interacting with the government have the right to request service in French. That's about the extent of the practical effects. People still speak other languages all the time, and observe their own cultures freely. |
|||
Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43  Posts: 634/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
| ||
| well, i know the issue was raised in the greater context of the discussion of america's ongoing battle with illegal immigration, spurred by the alleged fact that naturalization along our mexican boarder isn't conducted in English, but rather spanish. this idea, along with the percieved notion that those who immigrate to our country are unwilling to at least "meet us half-way" in terms of cultural processes, and the argument that it hinders their assimilation and potential success in the country, are somewhat valid points.. i can't say at this time i see a great need for an official language, but mostly that is because i'm not framiliar with the topic or the percieved benifits. Although in all honesty, when i first heard some half-witted argument against English as an official language (some weeks ago), my first knee-jerk reaction was anger and frustration. i really see no valid argument against it whatsoever, but at the same time i do not see/understand the great need for it. Is it rooted in econmics/politics or just national pride for the native tongue of our predecessors? |
|||
|
Arwon Zora Level: 35 Posts: 274/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
| ||
| I don't suppose it's worth pointing out that the Southwestern part of the country, the bit people are so keen to "preserve" as English-speaking, belonged to Spanish-speakers before y'all stole it? | |||
|
||bass Programmer Admin Level: 44 Posts: 315/817 EXP: 570813 For next: 40472 Since: 03-15-04 From: Salem, Connecticut Since last post: 26 days Last activity: 11 days |
| ||
| I don't feel all that bad for those unwilling to learn English in the US. If someone wants to have a 2nd rate job and live a 2nd rate lifestyle because they don't want to put the effort to learn the language well enough to get a bettar job then by all means.... As far as government buisness goes. The fact that grade school in the US isn't required to be taught in English is a serious problem. The whole point of an education system is to prepare people to function in society (to an extent). How can you claim to be doing that in the US without requiring use of the English language? I don't know.... |
|||
|
Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43 Posts: 638/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
| ||
Originally posted by Arwon only as much as it worth pointing out that the Spainiards themselves stole it too. they did it first! |
|||
|
Arwon Zora Level: 35 Posts: 275/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
| ||
| So given this transitory and contestable occupation of the continent, why should English get enshrined hegemony just because of an aberation where English speakers dominate the southwest? If the vernacular of a region is changing, surely the official organs should respect and respond to this rather than trying to impose THEIR ideas about language on the populace. (SPEAK LATIN, DAMN YOU! Or if you wanna more recent example, how about the enforcement of Russian in the minority regions of the USSR or enforcement of Castillian in Fascist Spain) Besides which, by the second generation, immigrants to any country usually pick up the dominant language, people get too worked up for nothing over ALIEN MIGRANTS NOT FITTING IN OMFG. And this new concern with enshrining English is basically a reflection of nationalist disease with immigration. |
|||
|
Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43 Posts: 640/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
| ||
| i hate to take this atittude, but because history is written by (and in the language of?) the winner? And what i mean by that is simple. I'd like to think that, as it stands now, the region as a whole is more stable and less likely subject to any further aberrations in which it is not controlled by America. (I've not studied empire/national life-cycles, so correct me if i'm wrong.) The united states government (for better or worse) now controls the area and it seems we'll be around for a bit. The majority of the population have in the past and currently speak english, it's well entwined in our culture and government. So, to me, it seems only logical that the official langauge be english. It's not really comparable to the situation in the USSR because everyone in our country already speaks english. It is, as you and VN both pointed out, the acting/de facto langauge. I don't understand why you are putting this idea at the feet of our politicians as there has actually been little or no drive for giving our country an official language that i can recall. the country, if i can make that assesment, would seem to me to be rather cool about the issue, siding with having an official language but in the end not really feeling strongly enough to pursue it. At any rate, your wording seems to be speaking out against the very idea of a national language for any country. Would you be condeming any modern country that was seeking to establish an official langauge? It would seem strange to me that we are not entitled, should we even choose that the issue is of even heft, to what most other countries already have. |
|||
iamhiro1112 Armos Level: 35  Posts: 385/487 EXP: 259927 For next: 20009 Since: 03-27-04 From: sd Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 7 days |
| ||
| Making english the official language would be another slap in the face to the lands original inhabitants. Uncle Sam: You remember how I took you away from your family and forced you to learn my prefered language? Native American: Yes Uncle Sam: Good, I just wanted to remind you. Ha ha. BTW, I'm removing your casinos tax exempt status too. Suck it. |
|||
|
alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 3634/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
| ||
| Official language for documentation, sure. Enforced language of EVERYTHING. No. |
| Pages: 1 2 | Add to favorites | "RSS" Feed | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - English as the official language of the U.S. |
| | |
