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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - International Women's Day |
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The SomerZ Summer, yay! Level: 45  Posts: 735/862 EXP: 618182 For next: 41982 Since: 03-15-04 From: Norway Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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| Excuse me while I go put on my charcoal suit and grey hat, looks like the fifties just returned. Oh, and equalling liberalism (yes, in the American sense of the word) to socialism is, well, silly, to say the least. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 3690/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by Jei*376 Most of the women I work with put forth a hell of a lot more effort than my lazy ass, and we get paid the same. |
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Jei*376 Micro-Goomba Level: 6 Posts: 12/13 EXP: 744 For next: 163 Since: 02-22-05 Since last post: 173 days Last activity: 173 days |
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| Actually I had hoped that all the 'women' here who claim to espouse this Liberlism (Socialism in English is the same in any other language....Black is black and white is white...it's the same thing) that is Women's Lib should be actually doing something to intelligently conversate on this topic rather than tossing out some lame ass, half-assed reply about strawmen, charcoal suits, grey hats and trying to make me think that Americans think of Liberlism/Socilism different from any other country (sorry, again, what's black is black and what's white is white. Whte cannot be called black and black cannot be called white. Liberlism by any other name is Socialism and a pre-cursor to Communism). I made that post and thought it would make some Women's Lib proponents see that there are guys out there who sympathize in substance some of their claims, in this case, equal pay for equal work. Now those snide, shitty comments only tell me one thing - they don't really care about equal pay because it means they gotta do equal the work. I admit I was being a bit sarcastic but hey, I have a sense of humor...sadly, Libz dont have it (and they call us Conservatives all stuffy...at least we don't whine about humor, we just don't really laugh). So there you have it. Sorry I came in and bursted the Women's Lib bubble with my 'I am man, hear me roar' comments, but I thougt intelligent convo beyond the humor was possible with the Libz....obviously, sadly, truthfully, as usual, Libz close their ears, run their mouths and keep on whining. LIBZ PERKELE! PS@Legion: hence why I said int he part you quoted: "While not all women fall into this catergory in mainstream working America". No need to quote me and tout how your lazy ass get's out-worked by a woman hahaha. Good thing she does get paid as much as you. If I were your boss, I would fire your lazy ass and have that woman take your place. guaranteed, you would nut up like man after that, get your balls outta your ass and do your job like a man instead of being outworked by women. You should be ashamed of yourself to even admit that, much less practice it. (edited by Jei*376 on 05-12-05 06:30 AM) |
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macks Level: 45 Posts: 654/900 EXP: 659955 For next: 209 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 22 hours |
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Originally posted by Jei*376Are you being serious? And also, I think no one here is trying to get women paid the same as men for less work. We want women to get paid equally for the same amount of work as men, which is not the case in very many work areas. An example being where Legion works, he should obviously not get paid as much as the women (or men) who work harder then him. This is not the case though. |
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Jei*376 Micro-Goomba Level: 6 Posts: 13/13 EXP: 744 For next: 163 Since: 02-22-05 Since last post: 173 days Last activity: 173 days |
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| Yes, quite serious. Have you ever seen the color balck ever be called white and everyone agree? Thought not! However the fact, getting paid equal pay for equal amount of work and getting paid equal for equal work are two different things that turn the debate depending on how it is worded. If you think a Housewife should be paid like a Chemical Engineer because of equal amount of work, guess again. If you think a manager of McDonald's thinks she should be paid as much as a manager of a larger, more important global corporation, then you are asking for the wrong thing. As I stated before, I do believe women should be paid equal to me - if they work equally as hard on the same jobs. No way should a woman who scrubs floors be paid the same as the man who tells her which floors to scrub and vice-versa. If a woman makes more than a man...so be it. She obviously earned it. Oppurtunity knocks and this is a big world. I don't want my daughter coming home telling me she works at a job and does the same thing a man is doing who has the same experience level as her and hired at the same time, but he gets paid more because of his gender. that itself is the discriminatory part I will not support and don't. But I will not likewise support my daughters' endeavor if her job is not worth the pay she demands only because she feels she works harder but takes no skill and demands his type of pay. Sorry, you want the cash like him, go bust your ass like him. If he wants to be a shameful lazy idiot like what's his face calls himself up there, so be it. Then step aside and let a woman who will honor herself do what you refuse and get paid for it. That's my take on it. Equal pay = equal work, not equal amount of work. (edited by Jei*376 on 05-12-05 09:22 AM) (edited by Jei*376 on 05-12-05 09:24 AM) |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3691/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by Jei*376 I might take offense to this but this is the same guy who says that some book is absolute irrefutable proof that a diety exists. (edited by Legion on 05-12-05 09:55 AM) |
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Kasumi-Astra Administrator Level: 62  Posts: 1478/1867 EXP: 1971846 For next: 12840 Since: 03-15-04 From: Reading, UK Uni: Sheffield, UK Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 12 hours |
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| Absolutely. There are litterally thousands of women who work their asses off, and yet, they get paid much less because they're not expected to be the bread winner. If a woman does not have your traditional set-up at home, ie husband and kids, how the hell is she expected to be able to afford a home? (we're talking high-flying jobs here) Women should get the same pay as their male counterparts in all jobs, because they deserve to escape the stereotype when they choose to. (edited by Kasumi Skywalker on 05-12-05 10:13 AM) |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3692/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by Jei*376 You really miss the point here too. The problem is that women, in some workplaces, don't get paid the same as men who do (and this next part is important so pay attention) for the SAME exact job, not different ones. But even still, using your logic, factory workers should be paid more than scientists and doctors because their job is more physically strenuous. Your logic fails, sorry. (edited by Legion on 05-12-05 10:20 AM) |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 3776/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| So...jei is not only a person who makes posts that are annoyingly long... He is a mysognist. Congratulations! If you want to try me on this, I'll use my vastly superior drop kick logic, ergo...Just don't argue. It was vastly agreed in this thread that sexism = bad. Don't try to introduce such ideas. |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 279/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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| Liberalism and Socialism are in many ways diametrically opposed philosophies and historically quite abtagonistic towards one another. Look up the Australian Liberal Party sometime. And also, the word socialism doesnt work as an insult to most people especially outside America, there are many Social Demoratic parties who are members of the socialist international and are quite mainstream. So OMG SOCIALISM doesn't work as a slur even if you weren't totally being wrong by conflating it with liberalism. |
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Cymoro PATRICK DUFFY WILL LASER YOUR SOUL   Level: 67  Posts: 1587/2216 EXP: 2549743 For next: 43129 Since: 03-15-04 From: Cymoro Gaming Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by Arwon But Socialism leads to the evil commies, and when you become a commie, they win, Not everything has to lead to anything else. I'm not shooting up a school or showing excessive violence because I play Doom, nor am I going blind when I wank. Same thing applies here, not all political states will eventually turn into another. Besides, liberalism leads to just everyone trying not to offend others, not socialism. With liberals, there'd just be more laws to appease more people (good and annoying). We're not channging from a democracy anytime soon, you have my word. |
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The SomerZ Summer, yay! Level: 45 Posts: 736/862 EXP: 618182 For next: 41982 Since: 03-15-04 From: Norway Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 3 hours |
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| Ok, about the socilaism/liberalism-thing: When I say "Liberalism in the American sense of the word", I try to differ between the way Americans and many other people understand the word "liberal". A liberal in many parts of the world is someone who is an economic libarlist, in other words, for a free-market with little-to-none government restrictions (on the old linear scale, this is a person who would be called "right-wing"). A liberal in America, however, is one who is a moral liberalist, in other words, one who believes in freedom of press, free speech, freedom of religion, basically any freedom with things conscerning the human mind and moral system (basically anyone on the old linear scale could hold these beliefs, but liberals in America, members of the Democratic party, are basically centrists). To discern between these two kinds of liberals, one often uses the term "classic liberalist" for the former, and "modern liberalist" for the latter. However, since this is an international board, we've had quite our share of problems regarding the term liberal, since people interpret it in very different ways in different parts of the world. That's why I put "Liberalism in the American sense of the word", to ensure that there would be no misunderstandings. As for socialism, it's a political ideology that hardly exists in America (there are, of course, some very small socialist groups and parties in America, but none are big enough to ever have made an impact), and it has practically nothing in common with the politics of the Democratic Party, or modern liberalism as an ideology. As for me, I'm a radical social-democrat (social-democrat means that you follow an ideology that pushes for socialism through reformist and democratic means. The word democrat in social-democrat has nothing to do with the Democratic Party of America. That I'm radical simply means that I belong to the left-wing of the social-democratic ideology), and thus I feel quite pissed off whenever some ignorant fellow comes around saying that liberalism and socialism is the same thing. They are not! They are far, far apart. I don't agree with a whole lot of what the Democratic party of America stands for, neither do any other communists/socialists/radical social-democrats (or most standard social-democrats, for that matter). Politics is a lot more than simply this and that, them and us, here and there. There are a whole lot more than only two ideologies in this world, and believe you me, liberals have a lot more in common with conservatives than they do with socialists. ... and the reason for my posting about charcoal suits and grey hats was because I felt the general view on a woman and society was something I thought died out in the fifties. I was trying to be funny, and I'm also pretty sure Arwon was trying to be funny when he said "That's one hell of a strawman. Did you build it yourself, with your MIGHTY MAN HANDS?" (I found it funny anyway). That's why I find your talk about humour and the lack of other posters using it quite, well, odd. |
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