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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Gaming - The Legend of Zelda Thread -New Trailer Released- |
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JDavis Trick or Treating Local Mod Affected by 'Halloween Syndrome' ++ Level: 44  Posts: 488/815 EXP: 568676 For next: 42609 Since: 03-15-04 From: Ada, Oklahoma, USA Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by Fyxe Others have said this as well, but it never went over with me. Zelda would not return to Hyrule Castle after she had fled with Impa. There is no logic to it at all. Now, I'll read that article... |
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Alastor the Stylish Hey! I made a cool game! It's called "I poisoned half the food, so if you eat you might die!" Have a taco.  Level: 114  Posts: 5244/7620 EXP: 16258468 For next: 51099 Since: 03-15-04 From: Oregon, US Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by JDavisEh? I haven't played Four Swords, as I never got LttP for the GBA, and simply assumed they were mostly the same but with FSA being basically an expanded version of it. Care to explain what goes on in Four Swords? EDIT: Originally posted by JDavisGanon being defeated = threat is gone = no reason not to return to the castle afterward. (edited by Kyouji Craw on 02-26-05 04:11 PM) (edited by Kyouji Craw on 02-26-05 04:11 PM) |
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Fyxe Lyn Level: 51 Posts: 778/1160 EXP: 954265 For next: 59673 Since: 03-29-04 Since last post: 117 days Last activity: 114 days |
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| The story of Four Swords is pretty identical, just less interesting. Zelda and Link visit the chamber where Vaati is sealed. Vaati manages to free himself, captures Zelda, Link takes the Four Sword, reaches Vaati and seals him once again, saving Zelda. It's all previewed at the start of FSA. EDIT: Kyouji's right, Ganondorf went to the Sacred Realm, there was no need for Zelda and Impa not to eventually return. Except... No, wait, Ganon still comes back and destroys Hyrule Castle... Um. Yeah, that bit is a bit iffy, but I still explained why there CAN'T be two timelines earlier. (edited by Fyxe on 02-26-05 04:13 PM) (edited by Fyxe on 02-26-05 04:14 PM) |
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Kario In Possession of a Stolen Shovel Level: 65 Posts: 1333/2082 EXP: 2321379 For next: 14249 Since: 03-15-04 From: Texas... Yeehaw! Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 17 hours |
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Originally posted by windwaker I don't think its funny, I think its sad. So stop doing it k? |
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JDavis Trick or Treating Local Mod Affected by 'Halloween Syndrome' ++ Level: 44 Posts: 489/815 EXP: 568676 For next: 42609 Since: 03-15-04 From: Ada, Oklahoma, USA Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Okay, article read. It makes several valid points, all of which I already knew. I still stick by me dual-timeline since there's no good place where Wind Waker would make sense at the moment (maybe this new Zelda will clear that up). The way the Imprisoning War goes in my dual-timeline is that despite Link not just letting Ganondorf into the Sacred Realm, he finally does find a way in, gets the Triforce of Power, and starts a shorter reign of evil than the one in OoT. Then Link awakens the Sages and stuff goes down pretty much the same as in OoT. I was never really against OoT being the Imprisoning War for the inconsistancies mentioned in that article. I was more against it because of Wind Waker. Prior to WW's release, we wouldn't even be having this arguement. I believed then that when Zelda sent Link back in time, there were then two Links inhabiting the same time period (one who was still going about collecting the Stones and would eventually sleep for seven years, and one who had already done all that and got sent back in time). The second Link then left Hyrule on Epona (who he would later send back to Hryule so she'd be there when his other self awoke) and accidentally ended up in Termina after a run-in with the Skull Kid. Wind Waker threw a wrench in the works. It'd be right after OoT/MM, and its ending doesn't much allow that to make sense. They'd have to find a new Hyrule which would somehow miraculously mirror the original, and Ganondorf is busy being a big hunk of rock with the Master Sword in his eye. They can't simply make a new Master Sword, it was made long ago by ancient sages under the advice of the Goddesses. So unless this new Zelda explains how they found a new Hyrule that just happens to be a near-match of the original, and how Ganondorf came back to life and they got the Master Sword back, I'm keeping WW seperate. |
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Fyxe Lyn Level: 51 Posts: 781/1160 EXP: 954265 For next: 59673 Since: 03-29-04 Since last post: 117 days Last activity: 114 days |
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Originally posted by JDavis That doesn't make any sense. If this was the case, then surely Link could use the Master Sword to travel back in time and go to the Sacred Realm and defeat Ganondorf at any time. But clearly this is impossible. Link cannot enter the Sacred Realm as a child. It always forces him into the future. And the sages cannot be awakened until the future. (edited by Fyxe on 02-26-05 05:04 PM) |
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JDavis Trick or Treating Local Mod Affected by 'Halloween Syndrome' ++ Level: 44 Posts: 490/815 EXP: 568676 For next: 42609 Since: 03-15-04 From: Ada, Oklahoma, USA Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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I forgot to mention that all of that paragraph is supposed to be set at roughly the same time as the adult events in OoT  |
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Xeolord - B l u e s - Power Metal > All Level: 81  Posts: 1410/3418 EXP: 4884196 For next: 108653 Since: 03-15-04 From: Yeah Since last post: 15 hours Last activity: 15 hours |
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Originally posted by JDavis Zelda has given us: Time travel (OoT/WW), Dreams (LA), Magical and Holy Worlds (LttP:Golden/Dark World) Answer: There's more than one dimension. IO__O__O__O__O_I_I_I_  _O |
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Super Sion You BlockHead! Level: 70 Posts: 1852/2472 EXP: 3002513 For next: 13298 Since: 03-15-04 From: Yo Mommas House Since last post: 29 min. Last activity: 5 min. |
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I still remember the first time I played OoT. It has to be the first game that made me feel like I was actuall adventuring in that world. I couldnt stop playing it for 2 days straight, and after I beat it I still had tons of fun exploring the vast environment. I also remember how beautiful I thought the game was at the time. It makes me even more excited to play this one.  |
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Fyxe Lyn Level: 51 Posts: 784/1160 EXP: 954265 For next: 59673 Since: 03-29-04 Since last post: 117 days Last activity: 114 days |
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Originally posted by JDavis Wait, a second, you're saying that Link gets sent back to the past, goes to Termina for a bit, grows up, then awakens the sages and defeats Ganon at the same time that he did as an adult anyway? I don't get your point... Why not just have the adult events happen anyway? O.o'' I think you should try and explain your Imprisoning War theory in more detail. I think it's pretty clear that OoT was intended as the Imprisoning War. If it wasn't, then that means that after OoT, some events happen that are almost IDENTICAL to OoT's storyline. Then ALttP happens later. Sense making little does. Lets look at the tricky time travel stuff from Ocarina of Time. Here's some text from Majora's Mask. 'You are already leaving this land of Hyrule, aren't you? Even though it was only a short time, I feel like I've known you forever. I'll never forget the days we spent together in Hyrule... And I believe in my heart that a day will come when I shall meet you again... Until that day comes, please... Take this... I am praying... I am praying that your journey be a safe one. If something should happen to you, remember this song... The Goddess of Time is protecting you. If you play the Song of Time, she will aid you...' This is text from Majora's Mask, of Zelda giving Link the Ocarina of Time. Now, this is an issue. When Link was sent back to the past, he didn't take the Ocarina of Time. Zelda had it. This means that if young Zelda has the Orarina of Time that means she didn't throw it to Link. Which means Link is sent back before Ganondorf attacks. However, how does Ganondorf ever enter the Sacred Realm without the Ocarina? And how would Link leave the Temple of Time without the Door of Time opened? Also, Link has the Triforce of Courage still, as shown in the ending. Does this mean he took it with him? Or does it mean Ganondorf has touched the Triforce in the past already and thus Link has it? If he took it with him, that means, for a moment, there are two Triforces of Courage, the other one being in the Sacred Realm. But then what would happen if Ganondorf touched the Triforce? Courage couldn't travel to Link, as he already has it. Now, major problems arise if we want Ganondorf to get the Triforce. The entrance to the Sacred Realm is via the Temple of Time. Lets assume for a second that the Door of Time hasn't been opened but it allows Link to pass through because he's on the other side of it, then closes afterwards. Then, after a few month's time, Link prepares to leave to search for Navi, and Zelda gives him the Ocarina of Time. Link then goes to Termina. Now, problem. How the hell does Ganondorf ever get into the Sacred Realm without the Ocarina of Time? And with the Triforce of Courage in Link, where does that Triforce piece go if he even did somehow manage to get in? And why would Link spend trouble free months in Hyrule then leave if Ganondorf was still an close threat? So what would happen if Link was sent back AFTER the Door of Time has been opened? The main problem with this is that Zelda has the Ocarina of Time. This could be explained away by saying that Link DIDN'T lose the Ocarina of Time at the end of the game. Zelda played it to send him back, but maybe it followed him. I just checked the text... Zelda tells Link to close the Door of Time!! This surely means she sends him back AFTER the door was opened!! 'You must lay the Master Sword to rest and close the Door of Time... However, by doing this, the road between times will be closed... Link, give the Ocarina to me... As a Sage, I can return you to your original time with it.' Therefore, Ganondorf is busy conquering the Sacred Realm and turning it into the Evil Realm or 'Dark World'. In the meantime, however, the Door of Time is closed, and the Master Sword is laid to rest. Ganondorf is therefore 'sealed', for the time being. Link then gives the Ocarina back to Zelda. In a few month's time, Link prepares to leave Hyrule and Zelda gives him the Ocarina and reminds him of the Song of Time. He then ends up in Termina, and whether he ever returns is unknown. Until then, he holds the Triforce of Courage. Ganondorf eventually attacks Hyrule and the events of OoT repeat themselves. There are some problems with this. The text of Majora's Mask suggests that Hyrule is saved and Link is a hero. But how can he be a real hero if Ganondorf is still in the Sacred Realm preparing to attack Hyrule? I assume everyone thinks Ganondorf is sealed but Link knows the future can't be changed if he's already seen it. For example, the man who you learn the Song of Storms from talks about the kid who caused problems with the windmill even if you haven't gone back in time and caused these specific events. This means that the timeline is one timeline and anything Link does in the past CAN'T affect the future in any way. |
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JDavis Trick or Treating Local Mod Affected by 'Halloween Syndrome' ++ Level: 44 Posts: 495/815 EXP: 568676 For next: 42609 Since: 03-15-04 From: Ada, Oklahoma, USA Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Well, the whole idea was they thought it was okay to let Ganondorf go about his business, since he couldn't get to the Sacred Realm (even if he did get the Stones and Ocarina, only the Hero can remove the sword). Then Ganondorf found some other way to enter the Sacred Realm, so they had to seal him up anyway. However, you've made too many valid points In that post for me to ignore... Rethinking must be done. Okay, it's all one unchanging timeline. When Zelda sends Link back in time (to shortly after Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm) at the end of OoT, he doesn't awaken in the past with memories of the future like he normally does, he is literally de-aged and sent back in time (meaning there's also the other existing in the same time period, sleeping in the Chamber of the Sages). First he goes and meets up with Zelda, who has returned to Hyrul Castle. Presumably he warns her that Ganondorf is going to be back and take over. He might even tell her all the events of the future. He gives her back the Ocarina of Time that he had with him (the other Link still has his) temporarily, and they basically hang out for a while. Then he finally decides to leave, and also has to find Navi, so she gives him the Ocarina back. After he goes to Termina and everything, he doesn't return to Hyrule until after Ganondorf is sealed away and his other self gets sent back in time, if then. The Legend in WW's opening says he never returned, but if he came back many years later he could have just not been recognized. As for the Door of Time, he doesn't actually close it (if he did, it wouldn't be open when his future self wakes up!), and there really wouldn't be much point to doing so anyway. Removing the Master Sword from the Pedestal of Time is supposed to be the only way into the Sacred Realm. It's not necisarily the only way out. By LttP, when the Sacred Realm has been the Dark World for a long time, the many entrances to it do not also act as exits. As for how things go from Wind Waker's ending to how they are in the other games... that's a question for Zelda '05 to answer. |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61  Posts: 1223/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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| Okay, I think I understand what JD's trying to say. I said there weren't multiple timelines before, but I was mainly referring to multiple realities, and JD's right, he couldn't have closed it. Glad we're on the same page.  |
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Fyxe Lyn Level: 51 Posts: 785/1160 EXP: 954265 For next: 59673 Since: 03-29-04 Since last post: 117 days Last activity: 114 days |
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| Actually, he could of closed it and probably did, but Ganondorf simply could of just had it opened again thanks to the Triforce of Power. The reason to close the Door of Time is to close the time link between the future and the present, and stop anybody else getting into the Sacred Realm. Otherwise any old mug could just wander in. I think we're coming to a concensus anyway. The fact that the timeline doesn't change when Link returns in time is vital. There's loads of stuff we do not see though, like Ganondorf's attack on Hyrule Castle (which is actually shown to a degree in the OoT manga) and then the destruction of Hyrule Castle and the town. |
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The Kins Kodondo Level: 38  Posts: 298/595 EXP: 354733 For next: 15714 Since: 03-15-04 From: Melbourne, VIC, Australia Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 9 hours |
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| THIS is what happens when you try to link mostly-unrelated games together. | |||
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Fyxe Lyn Level: 51 Posts: 787/1160 EXP: 954265 For next: 59673 Since: 03-29-04 Since last post: 117 days Last activity: 114 days |
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| Well, the thing is, they're more closely related than people think. Not that it's vital in the slightest, but you can see that they intended certain games to be prequels and others to be sequels and suchforth. | |||
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The Kins Kodondo Level: 38 Posts: 299/595 EXP: 354733 For next: 15714 Since: 03-15-04 From: Melbourne, VIC, Australia Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by FyxeFor all we know, the new Zelda game could throw us for a loop and flip all our previous ideas on their heads. There's a lot about Hyrule we don't know, I'd wager. (edited by Trashykins on 02-27-05 09:37 AM) |
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Alastor the Stylish Hey! I made a cool game! It's called "I poisoned half the food, so if you eat you might die!" Have a taco. Level: 114 Posts: 5249/7620 EXP: 16258468 For next: 51099 Since: 03-15-04 From: Oregon, US Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| True, but the chances of that actually happening are unlikely :x | |||
alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 3111/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I'm just going to say my piece on this. Link is the Time Warrior, Master of Time, etc. since he is this, I don't think that we can easily peg the Zelda series storyline in anyway. My guess is that very few of them are interelated and that the Link we see in each of these games is probably not the Link from the past game. I'm wagering he is a bit like a Christ figure. The people of Hyrule have these colourful myths, with recurring problems and so someone always seems to step up and take the bat. |
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Alastor the Stylish Hey! I made a cool game! It's called "I poisoned half the food, so if you eat you might die!" Have a taco. Level: 114 Posts: 5250/7620 EXP: 16258468 For next: 51099 Since: 03-15-04 From: Oregon, US Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Well duh. Shiggy has said there's multiple links, but your statement that ALL of them are different probably isn't QUITE true... I mean, there's more evidence that the Zelda Link and the Zelda II Link than there is that he isn't (IIRC it's stated in the game, so there you go). Ditto with Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. | |||
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 3112/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I will stand by my conviction that MM is set in a completely different universe and is not related to OoT in more than the fact that they have a young kid as the hero. Whoopity do. |
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